Hacker News Reader

Comment by mannicken | Hacker News Reader

I used to meditate but no longer do since I'm starting to trip (audial/visual hallucinations) very fast and the trip is usually not a good one. It is a very powerful natural psychedelic experience, comparable to third plateau of DXM at least... but controllable, unlike DXM.

View on HN

Some people react poorly to meditation -- even having hallucinations. See this story for more examples:

http://www.sfweekly.com/2002-08-28/news/bad-vibes/

So sure, try it, but if it doesn't feel right, don't force it.

That article is shocking, in the sense that most of the meditation teachers are unaware of the bad side effects. Basic relaxation techniques are mostly harmless, but "serious" meditation very often leads to profound challenges to one's sense of self and perception of the world. In the religious traditions that cultivate it, that is in fact the point, and there are many stages that are highly challenging and unpleasant.

If you're forcing anything in meditation, you're doing it wrong.

And of course some people will 'react poorly'. For most people it's the first time in their lives they've actually sat down and looked at themselves. This can be shocking.

Ignoring the problem doesn't make it go away though. That's just 'treating' the symptoms and ignoring the causes, just like we do with modern medicine.

> just like we do with modern medicine.

I think you mean, "just like we do when we misuse modern medicine."

I can't tell if you read the article -- but anxiety attacks, hallucinations, and seizures are reported in some percentage of people who engage in meditation.

There are an amazing variety of human brains, and if you accept the results that meditation causes measurable physical changes in brain structure, you should also be open to the idea that for some brains, those changes might interact badly with other preexisting (and quite possibly inherent) brain tendencies.

People should know that if they have bad reactions, it's not necessarily a matter of 'doing it wrong', or just fighting to get over an initial challenging hump. Stopping might be the right thing for their brain health.

Psychologists at Virginia Commonwealth University monitored 30 chronically anxious people during guided meditation. Seventeen percent indicated that their anxiety got worse.

17% of 30 = 5.1 people. Why not just say "five out of thirty indicated ..."?

They are called Makyo in Zen (check wiki).

They are just another distraction, like any other thought but visual. Just let them go. The bigger a deal you make of them, the harder that will be. Acknowledge them and let them go.

As you progress in your practice you might have spacial and auditory hallucinations too. The same thing applies here. Just let them go.

Yeah, it's just mental noise. Do you ever think you're hearing voices as you drift off to sleep, misread something you saw briefly as saying something very different, or mistake someone in a crowd for someone you knew?

Our brains constantly seek patterns in a sea of stimuli, and sometimes they create meaning out of noise. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia)

"We are all greater artists than we realize." -Nietzsche

If I relax and continue with hallucinations I start vibrating and having an out-of-body experience. It's fun and great but I like normal reality more :)

My wife was raised Buddhist. We talked extensively about the affects of meditation after reading an article on the over-use, abuse and misunderstanding of meditation in some Western mainstream practices. The article covered a few obvious but damaging cases: depressed and marginal personalities attempting to meditate for hours during a first attempt. What struck me when talking about it with my wife is that meditation is a skill; it's something you have to learn to do and something someone else should probably teach you so that you use it responsibly.

Perhaps it's overwhelming those who use dissociative drugs in high doses like yourself. I'm sure it's a good trip for those who have decided that they would rather not drink gallons of cough syrup. http://www.erowid.org/dxm

Its funny, the first time I had a visual hallucination when I was meditating I thought I was watching one of those trippy music visualizations in my mind.

I don't think the idea is to get hallucinations?

I believe he's saying that he'd love not to.

Hallucinations are very common once you get high enough concentration. For example simple visual hallucinations (lights) is commonly associated with the onset what is called "access concentration". Complex hallucinations are also possible, visiting eg the "realm of the hungry ghosts" . A lot of this kind of stuff is talked about in http://www.interactivebuddha.com/mctb.shtml

That definitely does not happen for me. Do you close your eyes while meditating?

were you on nutmeg?

Nope and I stay the hell away from deliriants.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com