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>>Had Uber not have done that, the lobbyists for the Taxi industry would have kept the status quo.

Uber has lobbyist now, working to change laws to benefit what they want to do, i.e. no fingerprint background checks for drivers in Austin see: https://www.curbed.com/2017/5/18/15657684/uber-lyft-austin-t...

From the above article "nonprofit Texans for Public Justice says the companies has spent more than $2.3 million on an army of 40 lobbyists."

Is it right for Uber to use lobbyists to push for laws that limit background checks?

>>It was Uber, pushing hard, that changed the world, for the better. That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong.

No, Uber does not care whether rules are right or wrong, does not care about making the world better, it only cares about how things will affect the bottom line, case in point: Uber's behavior in NYC.

We should know by now, that Uber had to make payments for short-changing drivers on pay, companies truly interested in making the world better, don't mistreat their partners see: https://theoutline.com/post/1780/uber-hasnt-changed

In regards to rules, Uber did not pull out of NYC, yet NYC has tougher regulation than Austin. It rarely get’s reported but the only NYC regulation that was changed that helped Uber was allowing drivers to use smartphone apps for ride hailing. The other more expensive regulations remained. Not only do drivers have a relatively expensive background check process, but they also have to pay to register as a driver. All potential drivers are required to take several classes and pass several tests to become professional Taxi drivers. There is literally no legal ride sharing in NYC, all Uber drivers must be professionals. An important part of Uber strategy is winning NYC, NYC does not need Uber. In the end Uber is like most businesses, it is not about making the world better, it is about making lots of money.

What's your opinion of stuff like the Hell app, or intentionally sabotaging competitors?

https://techcrunch.com/2017/04/24/uber-hell-lawsuit/

http://money.cnn.com/2014/08/11/technology/uber-fake-ride-re...

That's tough to say, I don't know enough about the entire situation. I think it's safe to say that Lyft and Uber wherein a street fight and were both doing "questionable" things to each other. It reminds me of Thomas Edison sabotaging Tesla, and yet, here we are, on A/C. [1]

[1] http://mentalfloss.com/article/30140/acdc-tesla%E2%80%93edis...

I couldn't find any example of similar actions by Lyft, but I could have missed something. Also, it's not just Lyft: https://techcrunch.com/2014/01/24/black-car-competitor-accus...

Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?

"Regardless of whether anyone else did it, do you think these are examples of Uber making the world a better place and breaking rules that shouldn't exist?"

You're not really asking a question, you know that anti-competitive behavior is not making the world a better place, it's fighting for market share and dominance.

Anti-competitive behavior is often rewarded in our society with higher profits, valuations, and market dominance. For example, Microsoft forcing PC makers to use Windows 95, or Microsoft using Windows to push IE crush Netscape. Look at Google pushing Chrome via all its products to take 70% market share, much of it from Mozilla, or Google downranking Yelp to push its own products.

Those are all good examples, and I think a pattern of that type of behavior is good evidence of a "toxic culture". That's what people are talking about, not just the recent sexual harassment stories. I'm pointing this stuff out because you said in your comment that you'd never heard of any bad behavior at Uber besides sexual harassment. In fact there's a consistent pattern of bad decisions made by people throughout the organization, and that's why people talk about a toxic culture.

> It reminds me of Thomas Edison sabotaging Tesla, and yet, here we are, on A/C.

Dangerous position to take. This is pretty much saying that the ends justify the means, given enough time. That because winners write history, that in the moment, doing whatever it takes to win is more important than operating ethically.

I'm taking the cynical view.

> intentionally sabotaging competitors?

This only underscores that Uber is a fairly large company. The only difference with every other large company is that not only did Uber get caught, they also sported a festering PR problem which worked as an amplifier.

I think that's irrelevant to the point being made. If every large company has a pattern of harmful behavior comparable to Uber's, then every large company has a toxic culture. Or if you prefer, every large company is a product of and contributor to a larger toxic culture.

I agree that unusually bad PR has amplified the consequences, but again that's irrelevant to examining the culture of the company.

Ha, I didn't think it could be read that way.

What I tried to point out is that actively sabotaging competitors has nothing to do with company culture, toxic or not. It's simply an aspect of a company being reasonably large (iow. they have resources to effectively use underhanded tactics).

I have no doubt that Uber's culture is toxic. (And I do admit to some glee observing them get raked over coals.) But engaging in sabotage is, for me, a null signal in that regard. The capacity for that is simply a result of being large enough.

That's a nice sentiment, but I don't see how Uber has changed the world for the better. Has Uber's app decreased pollution or global warming? No. Has Uber's app decreased economic stratification? No. Has Uber's app created jobs? No, those drivers could be regular taxi drivers without Uber. How about gun violence, domestic violence, cancer, diabetes, rape, systemic racism, drug overdose? No, Uber has not improved any of those things. Yet when I imagine a better world, these are the things that come to mind.

Uber makes an app that lets you hail a cab, or lets you drive people around without buying a medallion.

"Uber makes an app that lets you hail a cab, or lets you drive people around without buying a medallion."

If you used Taxi's for primary transport and now use Uber, it changed your world for the better.

"How about gun violence, domestic violence, cancer, diabetes, rape, systemic racism, drug overdose?"

Those were not part of Uber's goal, it doesn't mean they didn't make the world just a bit better. I could say the same thing about Google or Apple. They have also changed the world but haven't addressed those issues. The difference is there wasn't regulation preventing a Google or an Apple from growing. Uber was challenging a broken system of laws protecting an industry.

Every toxic environment needs a non-toxic superstructure for the henchmen to work in, live in, so they can feel good about themselves and regard criticism as contrary to appearances.

Perhaps you and your friends live inside that space. The people who regard the purported toxic environment as toxic are either not allowed in that space, or are conditioned to hide their beliefs.

> I lived a couple of blocks from Uber's HQ's on 10th/Market and I went to lots of meetups there. People I met were happy and proud of the company.

I'm not really sure this is a good measure of the toxicity of a company's culture, since it's not even close to a fair sampling of the people there.

Yes, there are clearly some sexual harassment issues, I'm not sure it's systemic.

You can bury your head in the sand (and think back on all the fun you had at those boozy meetups), but the brunt of evidence now made public so far - and ultimately, the recent actions of Uber's board itself - clearly indicates otherwise, this issue.

You don't just publicly fire 20 people - and ultimately, the CEO himself - for nothing, after all.

That's how the world changes, people pushing hard and breaking the rules when they know the rules are wrong.

Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, man, and drink it deep.

There's plenty more where it came from.