Infosys accused of racism
qz.com
qz.com
Likewise, Huawei's US workforce is overwhelmingly Chinese, but that's probably not a result of racism. Samsung's US R&D is almost fully Korean at the top - not because of racism
In India, as a counter example, Philips, the Dutch company, has most of the upper brass as Dutch. Again, not because of racism, but because of the go-between nature of the job
As a rule, 90% of what people call "racism" in the US today is closer to xenophobia.
Likewise, 75% of what they call "racist police" is fundamentally a failure of the justice system as a system to restrain, discipline, or be responsible for its own career employees (police, prosecutors, and even judges), let alone properly incentivise them.
As is murder.
The fact we may have evolved with something doest justify it.
You say "Huawei's US workforce is overwhelmingly Chinese" and shrug it off, and then I read an article about Facebook that says they don't hire enough black people.
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jun/25/facebook-...
This is such a silly thing. I mean this is what is racist actually, hiring people based on their race, having to balance races and genders, and race and gender and whatnot being variables in the job market.
*White people in white-majority countries. Most countries aren't as opposed to favouring their own as Western countries are, so this advantage is geographically very limited.
If everyone strongly believes that black people are still feeling the effect of slavery(despite not being alive when that was a thing), give them reparations and conclude that the playing field is level.
> What we as a society are truing to do is to undo the harm, in a way - to make chances equal, because we feel it's the right thing to do.
You don't undo harm by harming others, you don't fix racism by introducing racism against others.
The main flaw I see in your thought process is you are trying to fix a perceived inequality of opportunity by introducing equality of outcome.
If you really want to fix the lives are black people, fix the root cause, not the end result, it's too late at that point. I personally would start by fixing education.
That's a historically ignorant characterization. De jure discrimination existed long after slavery ended. Had Bill Gates been born a black kid in the south, he likely would've gone to a segregated school. De facto discrimination continues to present day. When Bill Gates got on stage to announce Windows 95, more than half of Americans didn't think that black people shouldn't marry white people. Do you think all those people admitted that view to pollsters, then went around in their schools, governments, and work places treating black people exactly the same as their white counterparts? Believing in Santa Claus would be less naive.
> give them reparations and conclude that the playing field is level.
People tend to think of that as a bizarre idea, but in reality that's the default way to remedy harms in the American legal system: awarding money damages. Here, the legal entities primarily responsible for the harm (the state and federal governments) are still around and can be held liable. Damages are often estimated by looking at the difference in income resulting from the harm. Here, that's likely north of $300 billion per year (assuming all of the black-white wage gap is explained by discrimination).
> You don't undo harm by harming others, you don't fix racism by introducing racism against others.
That's like saying you don't fix an infection by cutting out the infected tissue, which necessarily involves cutting out healthy tissue around it. Or that you don't fix cancer by collaterally poisoning a bunch of perfectly healthy non-cancerous cells. That's exactly how you fix disease!
The idea that the harms caused by federal and state governments' laws protecting slavery and segregation will go away simply because you get rid of those laws is like believing that a paperclip will unbend itself, or that an overturned boat will right itself. Fantastically naive.
This is an ignorant reply that overlooks what I have said in my full comment. I was referring to slavery explicitly and I did say at the end of my comment that education is still the biggest problem.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
> Here, that's likely north of $300 billion per year (assuming all of the black-white wage gap is explained by discrimination).
You only have to pay it out once and then everyone could move on with their lives.
> That's like saying you don't fix an infection by cutting out the infected tissue
No, it's like saying, you don't fix an infection by infecting something else.
> Or that you don't fix cancer by collaterally poisoning a bunch of perfectly healthy non-cancerous cells. That's exactly how you fix disease!
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-texas-sharpshooter
> The idea that the harms caused by federal and state governments' laws protecting slavery and segregation will go away simply because you get rid of those laws is like believing that a paperclip will unbend itself. Fantastically naive.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/strawman
I suggest actually reading and understanding my points. You are not going to convince anyone with verbal gymnastics.
https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix&page=0&dateRange=...
Would most Armenians agree?
The problem is that after discrimination has been a part of a society for so long, the default state without intervention is continued discrimination.
That's the fundamental argument. People in the majority/power group across whatever grouping believe the default state is equality. While people who have been on the receiving end of discrimination across generations (who are forced to be more attuned to it) believe the default state is continued discrimination.
History has shown the latter group to be correct, but the argument still happens every decade or so.
People think many things but at the end facts count, and positive discrimination may render the formerly opressed temporarily content, but it leads to tension among the involved groups.
Sure, but you can't contain a flood by swimming hard-enough against it on a personal basis. You need to build a dam. There needs to be a measurable deliverable for antiracism, and it can't be defined only over variables like "proportionate representation at Facebook". Not only is that a noisy, overdetermined variable, but most black people simply are not going to work at Facebook. Most people of any demographic don't work at Facebook.
We unconsciously seek the familiar and feel more comfortable with it. It doesn't matter whether it is shared interests in knitting, hobbies, common values or background, or even something superficial like skin or hair color.
We can fight against homophily, but I don't think we can ever get rid of it. It's part of our apparatus. What we are doing now in the West is unprecedented in humanity. The world wars of the 20th century were so horrific that we decided that the only way forward is to stamp out homophily, most recently by labeling a lot of it as racism or xenophobia. I want to be optimistic that we will end up in a good place but I have my doubts.
Not directly related to the article, but racism is not the same thing as xenophobia and it is not a cause but rather the effect of different races having different amounts of power. If a practice causes or strengthens some power disparity between races then it is racist, regardless of motivation (same goes for sexism vs. misogyny).
https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/06/21/against-murderism/
"So Definition By Consequences implies that racism can never be pointed to as a cause of anything, that racist policies can often be good, that nobody “is a racist” or “isn’t a racist”, and that sometimes the KKK trying to terrorize black people is less racist than them not trying to do this."
TBH, whenever someone sends me a link to this blog, I find it a little puzzling. To me, it seems like an attempt to describe color to people who are colorblind, and I guess I'm not in the blog's intended demographic. It seems like the author assumes some premise in the readers' minds that I simply don't share. I like the intention behind it, though (I think?), and I hope that the blog's audience find it helpful and/or interesting.
> Green, the former global head of immigration who has previously spoken out about the detrimental effect of curbing H-1B visas on the US tech sector, is accusing Infosys of using the very same work visas to replace or supplant non-south Asians at the company.
This is probably one of the reasons why there's a lot of people in tech industry (other than CEOs) who want stricter immigration rules in the US.
We thought it was raciest that none of non-Indian friends even get a chance to do interview but they all end up with offers at better companies, so no one looked deep into this.
Here's some of what I've read so far:
Economic - There's no discrimination because they only want the cheapest labor possible.
Culture - They want a consistent culture so, of course, they mostly hire Indians "because they work harder"- paraphrasing from another comment.
Language - It's easier to have everyone speak the predominant language of the company. Never mind that it's not the same language as the country its operating in.
Now, if a predominately white company used these same reasons to explain their lack of minorities there would be an uproar. And rightfully so.
Well, yes, because American minorities are part of the same culture/language/economy as other Americans.
What kind of argument is this? When the time to elect the 100th president comes, should all non-South Asian candidates be excluded from the start? (Assuming no South Asian is elected until then. And by then the 1% might have changed, of course).
"x% of all A have property X. We have been taking A's for the purpose of Y. The record shows the y% of our A's have property X".
A = population X = being South Asian x = 1 y = 93-94 Y = working at infosys
And the conclusion seems to be that when making a selection, the selection should be 'fair' for all properties of A, and not 'fair' for the purpose Y.
And I am not even mentioning the fact that the selection is made by infosys, whereas if fairness was that important no selection should be made at all. Maybe we could just ask the government (with their census data) to send the 'fair' distribution of people to work at infosys.
the argument is screwed in more ways than one. In particular the whole population makeup isn't relevant here. The US IT industry makeup is, and South Asian is [from my casual view] more like 30-40% of it, and while not 93%-94%, it is still much less dramatic of a difference (i.e. 2 out of 3 applicants have to be eliminated using the "culture fit" criteria instead of 19 out of 20).
"While roughly 1% of the US population is of the South Asian race and national origin, roughly 93%-94% of Infosys’s United States workforce is of the South Asian national origin (primarily Indian)."
The facial expression, the eyebrows, the haircut, everything!
Couldn't the market take care of racism? Nowadays if a company is dumb enough to make blatantly racist things, the social media makes sure that people know this, and not racist people will think twice when dealing with that particular company. However, if racism is hidden behind internal processes, e.g. they don't openly reject minorities, just set the bar higher for them when hiring, it can be really hard to unveil the misconduct.
Expecting the market to solve these problems is naive, it just won't happen except in a few high profile cases.
Consider a sole proprietor. It's detrimental to society if she refuses to hire black people. It causes social tension, an underutilisation of labour and is just plain racist.
Now consider an investor-owned company. We don't want managers hiring their friends and family over qualified candidates. It wastes capital, promotes inequality and impairs labour utilisation. (It also messes with education incentives). All that makes raising money harder for everyone which, in turn, makes the economy less effective.
TL; DR Employers being racist hurts other people. Hence, we regulate it.
It's also illegal in the US.