Users report 'fault' on iPhone 4 | Hacker News Reader

Users report 'fault' on iPhone 4

news.bbc.co.uk

54 pointsmdolon44 comments

I got mine yesterday and noticed the reception issue while holding the phone from it's sides immediately. I hope it's only a software related issue.

EDIT: I was just on a call, holding the phone from it's sides, and I was stationary in a good reception area. The call hung up. So it's not just the bars showing incorrectly, it's actually losing reception. Btw, it takes approximately 30 seconds of holding it from the sides for the bars to completely go down.

Most of the pundits think it's a hardware issue that may result in Apple's first major recall.

Do they? I've seen more people saying they expect it's just a software/presentation problem. Not that I think there's any particular reason to expect either group to know what they're talking about.

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/06/new-iphone-4-anten...

Ars Technica usually know what they're talking about. I tend to trust them

I worry about the conditions apparently needed to reproduce this (and the fact that I still can't reproduce it). Even Ars' explanation includes "consciously" holding the phone in a different way than you naturally would and licking your hands before doing so...

> a software/presentation problem

As in

  int fix_antenna_problem(int bars) { return bars < 5 ? bars + 1 : 5; }

? :)

I don't see how this could be a software problem.

…in the form of free bumper cases for all.

Certainly not their first major recall -- I remember my iBook's battery being recalled as part of that exploding battery debacle. There was something with poor soldering of motherboard components, too, that affected the generation of iBooks previous to mine.

I wonder if Apple could keep costs down here by shipping those rubber bumper cases to everyone. Unless this is some bizarre feedback issue that can be fixed in software, I don't see how Apple could recall the iPhone 4 and truly fix this short of a major redesign. And I'd hate to see that happen, if for no other reason than it would seem such a waste...

Mr. Jobs' take? "Just don't hold it that way."

http://www.tuaw.com/2010/06/24/double-stevemails-on-iphone-4...

I tried this, and I could only make it work when the phone was without a case. When I touched the metal directly I could make the signal go from 5 bars to 2 bars. With the case on I could not make it change at all.

EDIT: this was holding it with my left hand, I did not try it right handed.

Yes but this mean you MUST buy a case.

I got my phone today and i tried reproducing the network problem in various ways but luckily, the network holds up for me.

I suspect a bad batch of phones which were manufactured with defects ..

Yeah, I am currently streaming Pandora, holding the phone with my left hand cradling the bottom, while replying to this post, all on 3G. I haven't been able to get the bars to drop either...

Cradling from the bottom isn't the problem. Holding it from the sides without touching the bottom, and without a case, is the problem. Remember that the antenna is the metal on the sides.

The problems seem to arise from covering the seams so as to say where the frame pieces are connected. If the seam is not covered or touched by hand, there should be no drop in the network. Seems like the antenna's shorting out when the seam is covered by hand.

A small piece of scotch tape should do the job as far as avoiding this problem goes until one can get hold of a cover

Same here - I simply cannot reproduce the problem others are having... I had a 3G before and my reception is much better with the iPhone 4.

Fault? No-button disconnect is totally a feature.

iRecall: it's like recalls by other companies but ours is shiny and you'll love it! ;)

Happens to me but only in areas with a weak signal (NYC).

In strong signal I never lose a bar. At home, which is usually a dead zone - I was surprised to see so many bars with the new phone. But if I do cradle it with my left hand, the bars disappear completely within a few minutes.

But I cannot replicate it reliably elsewhere.

If I remember my RF classes, it will happen when there is one antenna in the region the phone is. If there are more antennas in different directions, roughly with the same power, the effect should be much less pronounced.

Radio is... complicated.

If I remember my networking classes, a GSM device is normally connected to a single BTS (tower) at a time. (Hand-overs between two towers are the major exception, and they're very brief.)

If your hand blocks the signal of one tower, the phone will switch to the next that is probably not in the same direction as the previously best one and signal strength will, hopefully, not suffer as much from your hand.

happens to me as well.. I heard buying the bumper fixes the problem. Another $30 to apple from me I guess :|

You are really going to give them another $30 to finish their job of device packaging? If touching the antenna(s) makes the phone fail to function, then a case needs to cover the antenna(s), and that case should be part of the price of the phone to begin with.

So what would you suggest? Pouting loudly?

This problem seems over-emphasized. I can get my phone to do it if I hold it in a funny way (and I am a righty but usually lefthand my phone). I'm not trying to make excuses for Apple here, I'm trying to say that this problem's press coverage makes it seem worse than it actually seems to be in the real world.

Since when is asking a company to fix a product that isn't working on day one "pouting"?

The way people are holding the phones in the demo videos is not exotic or weird. So, yeah, that can sound a bit like an excuse. It sounds even more like blaming the people who are seeing the problem. Maybe their hands just aren't good enough, right?

If an piece of electronics needs a case that insulates a part from contact to the user, then leaving that off is incomplete packaging. Simple as that. If the issue is coming from a bad batch of phones or design flaw that is leading to the failure or under-performance of some mechanism designed to deal with that contact to the user, then those hit by this deserve their choice of a new phone that isn't from that batch or, at the very least, a free case.

The first Android phone I had would reboot every few minutes while being used, I tried the full reinstall that the technician recommended, but when I walked back in and said it hadn't worked, he didn't blame me. He handed me a new phone (no problems since). No one expects perfection in new hardware rollouts, but it is right to expect proper customer service. Since you asked me, I would suggest Apple fix it in software if that is possible, and/or start handing out free cases like candy.

> Since when is asking a company to fix a product that isn't working on day one "pouting"?

No. Speculatively suggesting Apple will not make good on this when they have a fairly good track record is pouting. If there is a serious problem noticed by lots of consumers, it's obvious that Apple will at the very least offer a case to those affected. Most people here have been repeat Apple customers because of reasonably good service over the years.

> The way people are holding the phones in the demo videos is not exotic or weird. So, yeah, that can sound a bit like an excuse. It sounds even more like blaming the people who are seeing the problem. Maybe their hands just aren't good enough, right?

Nice try, but I didn't do that. It takes a very specific (and I mean specific, I have to try multiple times to get it to happen, it's not casual finger contact) grip to do it. Short term: do not hold the phone that way. Is that acceptable as a long term fix? No.

My only point: The press is making it to sound like the phone "does not work" or "is unusable" and anyone who's saying that is as guilty of hyperbole as the people saying it is no problem at all. We can easily strike a balance here were we say the phone has a "idiosyncrasy" (or "flaw", take your pick of connotation) without implying that everyone who bought one is lying to themselves and every phone is a brick. I see the press, particularly the linked bbc story, skewing to the "this is a brick" end of the scale when that's false to any realistic examination.

Absolutely "this is a brick" is an exaggeration... good thing I didn't said that then, huh. And I don't remember suggesting that Apple won't make good, so your pouting charge is still misplaced and increasingly impolite. I questioned someone's, seemingly abject, willingness to take the hit for fixing it themselves rather than putting the responsibility where it actually belongs.

The electrical properties of skin can vary quite a bit. One person's specific and firm grip to get good contact is another person's sweaty handed casual touch. That still sounds like blaming the user that finds the problem to me. The guy in the key-test video mentioned that his company's half a dozen phones all behaved the same.

Is the press inflating things? They do for everything, so sure. Just how much is a guess till some stats come out on this thing. If and when we do get good numbers, this will make a good example case for the distortions introduced by internet media.

Addendum: Moving right along with the "will make it good" idea... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1459629

Apple always does exactly what Steve Jobs says at any given moment. Exactly.

So having to go through the old "there is no problem", "a little problem that isn't our fault", "ok, maybe our fault but we admit nothing and nothing can be done", "ok here is a fix"... is that your idea of great customer service? Why not just cut to the chase and be responsible about it?

You asked me earlier what I suggested, and though you have consistently miss-characterized it, I answered in a way that I think would be a PR win for them. What would your suggestion be then? The old corporate song and dance?

Also, you can have the last word on this, if you wish. Since, although I'm pretty certain I've listened to you, I'm not at all certain you've listened to me in this exchange and that doesn't incline me to continue this communication. If I just wanted insults pushed at my general direction, I'd go spend some more time on reddit. Later.

Money back or a working device. That’s what you should get, not buying some crappy case.

ah I would be bummed to have to buy one of those ugly bumpers, I like apple devices the way they are bare.

I like certain other things when they're bare, but I'd never want them to go out in public without clothes on.

Made it happen without trying, left hand. Gratis bumpers seem like the quick fix solution.

Duct tape is the quick fix solution.

They still get mocked for "pick the Apple III up and drop it on a soft surface to reseat the chips", I don't think "duct tape" is going to swing it as a solution for them to suggest.

Actually, yeah: http://www.flickr.com/photos/wonko/4731332788/

They had to have known about this problem. They just decided to sell it anyhow knowing people would buy it, regardless.

Hey, you voting me down:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-iphon...

I thought the whole story about how Apple was holding up the release of the white models was a littly fishy.

Theory: Apple realized they may have a serious problem at some point after the launch (black?) model was flowing to retail channels, but before they released the white model. So they're hurrying to address it before white ships, at least.

This does smell like a recall.

Apple have created a phone

"Apple have?"

Isn't it ironic that the very people who are supposed to be the keepers of English can't even use proper grammar? Apple HAS created a phone. Apple is a company. Singular. Not plural. There is no earthly defense (er, "defence") for referring to Apple, a company, in the plural.

I think it is an usage specific to the UK.

Use of a plural verb after a singular noun denoting a group of persons (known as a noun of multitude) is commoner in the U.K. than in the U.S. Fowler wrote: "The Cabinet is divided is better, because in the order of thought a whole must precede division; and The Cabinet are agreed is better, because it takes two or more to agree."

Taken from: http://alt-usage-english.org/groupnames.html

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