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Comment by benologist | Hacker News Reader

How did you overcome the visa barrier? "Just do it" is sound enough advice if you're American but you seem to be Canadian (and I'm Australian), you might as well be saying Just do it: Flap your arms and fly.

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Come for three months at a time on the visa waiver program. You'll be surprised at what you can get done in that time.

OP: That is not necessarily good advice; consult with a competent immigration attorney before you do this. Most startup-y work you would do while admitted via the VWP would likely be immigration fraud - in direct violation of the terms under which the alien was admitted in via the VWP. These immigration violations incur bans, and could potentially break your dreams/career, etc.

Depends on what work takes place. It's a great opportunity to network, and write your own code.

Seems to be just fine for YCombinator too.

By the way, why is the knee-jerk reaction always to talk to a "competent attorney" for stuff like visas? I'd like to think the HN community is a pretty capable group of folks. The US government provides more than enough information online to figure out what will work best for you depending on your activities and to do it on your own. I was able to get my wife a green card completely on my own without having to consult a "competent attorney". If you are sufficiently competent, hiring a professional will save you research time but not much else.

I suspect the YCombinator usage is iffy. YCombinator don't give advice on visas, but rather suggest you speak to YC alumni who've done it. While I'm sure there are many reasons why they take that approach, I wouldn't be surprised if the legality was a big reason.

Saying that many developers both for startups and for other industries like finance do go to the US and work 2-3 months without any issue. It's not clearly allowed, but nor is it clearly disallowed.

The reason people suggest speaking to an attorney is that if you screw it up, not only will you get deported but you can be banned from re-entry not only to that country but many other countries. There's nothing like "denied entry" being stamped on your passport to get you stopped at every border crossing you cross for the rest of your life.

You don't want to talk to an attorney in this case because then it will be obvious that you are actually trying to skirt the law, rather than being a tourist.

The trick is to act like an idiot. Wear a baseball hat. The people working at the border are idiots and they will empathize with people like them. If you act like the typical annoying know-it-all computer nerd they will deny you out of spite.

By the way, why is the knee-jerk reaction always to talk to a "competent attorney" for stuff like visas?

There are dozens of guest worker visas for the United States.

Just applying for any visa to the USA is sufficient cause for the State Department to deny you future visas for the rest of your life. That includes completely sincere and honest applications. They just consider the application for any visa to be evidence of your suitability for future entrance and they keep track of tiny details forever. It doesn't matter if your life circumstances have changed.

If you've seen Brazil, you've met America's immigration bureaucracy.

A good immigration lawyer can reduce the trouble. You should never even apply for a tourist visa to the USA without asking an immigration lawyer.

I hope you're joking. Sure it's bureaucratic, but it's also straightforward. Follow the rules and there are no issues. A lawyer for a tourist visa? Please.

Yeah you can get a lot done but it's a transient state, you're leaving on a date and can't come back for months. It's really not a good way to relocate a startup, not to mention the visa violations.

In my experience it's trivial to get a TN1 visa if you are Canadian. It is tied to a specific employer, but an employer could just be an LLC set up by your friends. There is a similar visa for Australians now, the E-3.

How about EU citizens?

Sadly, I think EU citizens have to use the H1B visa or else one of the special-important-expert-person visas I know nothing about.

I'm from Spain. My F1 visa allows to me work for my own business for 29 months.

That's great if you happen to be studying in the US, but I suspect it's not going to work for those of us who would like to work on our startups full time.

You can work on your startup full-time on an F1 visa after you complete your studies in the US.

In my experience its easy to get but not trivial. You need a lawyer first of all, or they'll deny you just for spite. Then the firm that's hiring you needs to demonstrate that it has

- employees

- an office

- revenue or funding

I've got my (successful) application right in front of me, and it has proof of all 3 of those things. Also they have to pay you the "market rate" for an engineer (presumably that's the category you would be in), and you have to have a degree in order to prove that you fit in that category.

Trivial may be the wrong word. It's easy if you fill all the requirements. In SF we had an LLC, an apartment in the mission, a lawyer to fill out the paperwork, and 8 Canadians. The canadians all did have college degrees. I honestly don't know if the border patrol even checks all of this stuff. One of the guys said it took about 20 minutes to get through. It probably depends on what border you go through. In my experience the small borders are the worst, because the border patrol are from small towns and have nothing better to do other than fuck around with you. (this is also assuming you are driving) The best driving border is BC => Washington. Flying in, the west coast seems the best.

On the other hand, I know loads of people who go from Europe, Japan and Australia to California, NYC and Hawaii simply to hang out for 3 months at a time. These are people who have no college degree or any useful skills at all. They are here to surf, snowboard, or loaf around new york. Getting into the country is not a huge problem. The threads on this topic often have a tone of excessive worrying about visas. You can easily show up in the country and hang out for a while.

The latter is a slightly different (and in my opinion more interesting) approach. Tourist visas are actually good for up to 6 months. So as long as you have enough money saved, you can do it that way.

"I honestly don't know if the border patrol even checks all of this stuff."

In my experience they do. I'm a Canuck who was working in Dubai, got a job in Vegas, applied for and received a TN Visa from the US Embassy in Abu Dhabi (which was a cool document bonded onto one of my passport pages). I transitted through the Vancouver airport on my way to LV. There, US Customs took one look at my TN-1, drew a line through it, noted "Cancelled without Prejudice" and denied me entry to the US to work. When I asked why the response I received was, and I quote, "Abu Dhabi don't know shit".

Well that sorta reinforces my point. They don't check it if you are denied or approved... They just deny or approve you.

Hopefully that was the last time you ever sat your foot in the us.

The bastards don't deserve us if that is how they intent to treat us.

Actually, my employer petitioned for a different visa for me, and 4 months later I was happily ensconced in LV. I've worked in many countries and bureaucracy is the same everywhere - bureaucratic.

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