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Comment by PeterisP | Hacker News Reader

Breakage is a big part of cost of ownership, especially for very expensive tools.

IMHO in the context of maker spaces, it's wrong to structure it so that people could unexpectedly be on the hook for large amounts of money if they happen to be the ones who break a machine, it would work much better if such expenses would be like insurance, made small, distributed and predictable, priced in the usage or membership.

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That, on the other hand, can encourage people to be careless in what they do. It's not their own equipment, they don't pay for it, so why worry about whether it will break? Someone else will have to fix it.

Maker/hacker spaces are communities, not companies - a well-run space will try to identify and filter out people with such a mindset. Not that these problems don't happen - but the whole benefit of such spaces is that they remove inefficiency in sharing stuff by assuming (and hopefully ensuring) that people will play nice.

Can you truly not imagine any policies or cultural/social engineering efforts to mitigate this? Humans are social animals, money is not the only thing that drives behavior, a culture of respect and social accountability goes a long way.

Sure I can. It's called communism, where nobody owns everything and everybody shares.

We all know how well that works.

we should give another chance to communism then, as those are wonderful ideas. we should learn from the past instead.

Communism has had no lack of second chances.

Some would say Communism lacks even a real first chance.

There's no law against forming a commune in the US. Lots of groups have. Feel free to found your own. The problem with communes in the US, however, is you cannot make anyone join or stay.

Accomplishing that requires a government, and has been tried lots of times, most recently in Venezuela.

Given the historical results of government imposed communism, I'll pass on giving it another chance.

Communism doesn't work, for one major reason...

If everything is shared, who ensures how everything is shared?

A: The government.

What does any entity do when given absolute power? Hmm.....

How to get totalitarian regimes 101

Communism works reasonably well for commune sized societies where everyone knows each other well and have joined because of common interests.

The issue with communism is that it (or, more accurately, the behavior/attitude needed for it) doesn't work at scale for larger societies that include strangers, but for smaller communes, including the people that would form a local maker space, those principles can work reasonably well.

Communes, even smaller ones, don't work very well, and don't last.

Do you have any data for this argument?

Can't find any long lasting ones. For example, hippie communes were common in the 60's and 70's. They've all vanished. The largest, San Francisco's 1967 "summer of love", only lasted a few months before collapsing.

"those who gathered in Haight-Ashbury during 1967 allegedly rejected the conformist and materialist values of modern life; there was an emphasis on sharing and community. The Diggers established a Free Store, and a Free Clinic where medical treatment was provided."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_of_Love

This is place is most likely an exception to the rule but here is a single counter-example; a long-standing commune near my hometown: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_Oaks_Community,_Virginia

A more interesting article on it:

http://www.twinoakscommunity.org/paxus-307/pax-modesty-ineff...

It's a survivor of "thousands" of communes started in the 60s and 70s, perhaps the only one. Turnover is about 12% a year. Perhaps the secret to their success is the ability to attract a constant stream of replacements, as members who tire of communism leave.

Even so, it shows that if you want to live in a communist society, you're free to form one here in America.

Me, I'll pass.

Israeli kibbutzim is probably the largest example, where you have a set of many communes so you can see what is an accident and how the average behaves; and they were/are long lasting.

They're supported with government money, as they are unable to support themselves. That's not success.

Communes may not work well (they often act somewhat like cults) but unions, credit unions, and cooperatives work pretty well. These are all collective labour societies. They lack the all-encompassing nature of communism which makes them less likely to oppress people into rebellion.

One option might be you don't pay for it, but you are banned from using it, or banned from the whole space for some period of time. Shunned, in other words.

Deductibles. Set them per/person and increase them per incident.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Purchase insurance with a small but not insignificant deductible. Everybody who participates then puts down a deposit to cover the deductible. This way insurance is cheaper, if somebody breaks something it won't cost them too much money, but there's still a disincentive to break things so people will be careful.

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