Apple closes the iTunes store for iPhone users who don't share location | Hacker News Reader

Apple closes the iTunes store for iPhone users who don't share location

econsultancy.com

64 pointsbrk35 comments

That's a hugely misleading title.

You have to agree to the terms, however you can then immediately opt out of the specific change and continue using the Appstore as normal without sharing location based information.

I'm not sure how this is any worse than G-mail scanning e-mails of Google or Bing using your web searches.

I stopped using the store because of this issue. Now, if there is some hidden option that will block this "feature" that's different, but I have yet to find it.

http://oo.apple.com

That does not opt you out of the policy:

To provide location-based services on Apple products, Apple and our partners and licensees may collect, use, and share precise location data, including the real-time geographic location of your Apple computer or device. This location data is collected anonymously in a form that does not personally identify you and is used by Apple and our partners and licensees to provide and improve location-based products and services. For example, we may share geographic location with application providers when you opt in to their location services.

They might be using it to sell advertizing today, but that's far from the only thing they can do with that data.

Browsing the store does not send them location information except for an IP address. The system never requests location information without giving a confirmation dialog first.

This hasn't ever changed and I don't see why it would have. The only thing that has changed is that you read a misleading article.

I don't know why people keep mentioning that website in the context of the location issue.

iAds/oo.apple.com are in a different section of the privacy policy entirely. They have nothing to do with location tracking.

Bing has web searches? (I kid, I kid...)

That's a hugely misleading comment.

You can opt out of receiving location-based ads, but you cannot opt out of sharing your location. Just read the terms of http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4228 carefully.

In fact, you can completely disable location services with one switch. (Settings --> General --> Location Services --> Off)

If you prefer a more granular approach, all apps (including Apple's own), allow you to disable location services for that app alone. In addition, all 3rd party apps, on first requesting location data, require the user to explicitly opt-in.

Why is it that I always feel that location awareness is used vastly more against my interests than for it? With the exception of Google Maps, I can't think of a single instance where it's helped me. You can't watch this, because you aren't here. You can't listen to this because you aren't here. You can't subscribe to this. You can't download this app. In the case of O2 in the UK, you can't even use our website. But, you know, at least I'll get some ads in the wrong language because I'm an expat. Win win!

What irritates me is that they say that the data is "anonymous" but it is clearly grouped to develop a targeting package to you, so how anonymous can it be when you log into the store from your house every few days.

It depends on how Apple provides those ads. If they handle the ad selection on their end, and don't provide any information back to the advertiser, it's functionally anonymous.

Saying "here's this guy's address, provide an ad for him" is very different from "send me ads for this area, and I'll show them to people who are near there".

You are right, and you highlight an important development here: In moving into the world of targeted advertising, Apple's going to have to let go just a bit and engage in some transparency.

I want to know what's being collected on me, where it's going, and what it's going to be used for. Heck, if anyone has the capability to make this kind of disclosure uncommonly clear and intuitive, it's Apple.

Not really.

They will probably give you at least as much control as facebook as they will be able to target you by the apps you own. If this is the case then its not that hard to target ads to exactly one person. See here: http://www.gabrielweinberg.com/blog/2010/05/a-fb-ad-targeted...

Why would they model iAds after facebook? I would say the current facebook model has a nearing expiry date. It's certainly possible that Apple don't see this or don't care, but to just assume it isn't giving them much credit.

Exactly. Real-time location data personally identifies you. It's probably better for that purpose than your name. There is no way to collect this data that does not personally identify you.

Is there a way to opt-out of Apple's location tracking altogether? I know apps usually request express user permission for it on a case by case basis, but the way I'm reading the new T&C, Apple and/or it's partners no longer need it in iOS 4. Is this correct?

It seems like the opt-out link mentioned in the article is just for iAds and relative to cookies, etc, and not location tracking.

Settings -> turn off "location services". This will prevent any app from requesting this info. Of course, you're not going to be able to use Maps or other apps that require GPS. And of course, websites you visit can still use the same GeoIP tracking that they use for non-mobiles.

I'm aware of those settings, but it sounds like Apple is now at least reserving the right to collect and/or use some location data irrespective of, or in addition to those settings. I may be misunderstanding it or inferring too much, but that's the impression I got from the new T&C.

There was a link provided earlier to opt-out. http://oo.apple.com.

If you want complete anonymity, don't use a cell phone. Its unrealistic in today's world to expect it while also using connected devices.

EDIT: This is reality. If you think the loss of anonymity its wrong, I don't disagree. My comment was not to promote a personal opinion about what's right or wrong, but simply recognizing the obvious state of affairs. In today's world, some government entities do not believe privacy transfers to electronic mediums. In fact, the FTC has recognized that current law is not keeping up with new technology and mediums.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20008422-38.html

Article doesn't show the details of this very well.

If an app is iAd supported, it makes sense to not allow a person to download it if they have iAds off, but I'm not sure if there is a more complete shutdown of the store for those who opt out.

My understanding is you can't use the app store if you don't click through agreeing to the policy allowing data sharing.

I was under the impression that the policy says that you agree to let them share your data if you do not go to the website and opt-out.

Which to me, implied that the app store doesn't care (or even know) if you've opted out or not.

The assertion in this headline seems completely unsupported by any policy cited in the article or in the comments here on the article.

So, Apple is targeting ads based on location? How is this different from any other ad network in existence? At least Apple is providing an easy to use opt-out mechanism: http://oo.apple.com/

Meh. AT&T and my other cellular providers have always known exactly where I am, so what do I care if Apple does, too?

Where are you right now, and what is your full name?

That feels pretty strawman-ish. OP didn't imply that it is okay for everyone to know where he or she is, only that they don't care if a second (or more) benign entities do.

If you presented your motivations for asking their location and identity, and were considered suitably benign to their tastes, you might find out. Instead, it comes off as being glib (perhaps intentionally so, I don't know).

There's no stopping Apple from automatically "signing you up" to their new social networking site that conveniently shares all that info to the world. However, AT&T has privacy concerns to uphold.

Mwahahaha, this is delicious!

But seriously, what now guys?

What do you mean 'what now'? It'll be the same as it's always been - a few tech-savvy people will complain about it on the internet while the majority of the population won't give a second thought to sharing their location with Apple, and Apple will continue to rake in the money.

I can't even imagine how much money this sort of data would be worth to marketers - you would be able to pinpoint exactly which areas have high densities of people at which times, how long an individual stays on average, etc. You could use the iPhone's microphone to detect noise levels in the area and how they fluctuate over time, which would be extremely useful.

And sense it's the iPhone, it's actually "exactly which areas have high densities of people" who have lots of disposable income.

Who are exactly the kind of people that a lot of marketers care about.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com