Madrid cracks down on 'manspreading' on public transport | Hacker News Reader

Madrid cracks down on 'manspreading' on public transport

bbc.com

13 pointsskbohra12335 comments

I am much taller than average, way above the 99th percentile. On public transportation and on planes, as a matter of fact, I occupy more space than most people. Sometimes seats are designed so that I cannot help but invade someone else's space. Usually it takes just a second a tiny bit of common sense to ask someone to move a bit. Most often just eye contact is enough.

On the other hand I saw my fair share of jackasses on public transportation (feet over a seat, bringing in bikes during peak hours when it is explicitly forbidden, screaming on phone, drinking beer and then throwing the can on the floor, occupying more than one seat) and -- surprise surprise -- males and females were equally represented among jackasses.

This feminist trend of making up problems and sticking a "male" label on it really makes me sick!

Yours is a totally different issue, here we are talking about people occupying much more than the space they need and invading other people personal space.

I am bother by this behavior and I feel it should something people learn when they are kids, not something I should ask for.

People may invade your personal space for many reasons: because they are taller than average, because they may be commuting for a long time and need to move their legs a bit, because they simply forgot or think about something else, because they come from different cultures with a different culture of what is personal space (try using public transportation in Beijing and then in Tokyo), or because they are assholes.

I think that we can just try to be humans and ask, it's not really a big deal. As I said even eye contact is enough most often, is it so difficult.

There's no need to start a war, leave along a pointless, sexist war like the proponents of the term "manspreading" are doing.

I guess I disagree on your arbitrary definition of "human", but this is a bit off topic.

This campaign is teaching people how they should ask, which is much more efficient and effective that asking one person at the time (moreover if you are the only one ask chanses are you will be seen as an unreasonable person on the train).

For the sexiest part I think it's laughable,as they are not suggesting it's a problem with all men, but that is prominent in men, which for my experience it's true. Btw also their claim as "manspreading" being sexiest is laughable in my opinion, but I agree that it should be stopped (and I am a male).

And your point is? That women sit spreading their legs as much as men? That the problem doesn't exist?

You are surely kidding?

And in 30 years using public transportation in 2 different countries I call bs on the claim that assholes are equally represented among men and women. It might be a matter of education (women be quiet, men be loud and mainly), but 90% of the times there's issues these are caused by men. Usually in groups.

The point is that this feminist trend of sticking a "man" label over common problems makes me sick. It's unnecessarily confrontational, just like your comment.

And btw yes, the problem, as it is described by the sexist slur "manspreading", exists just in a feminist's mind.

In my experience men and women are equally represented among assholes. I'm glad you shared your different personal experience, though.

Wait, how'd you figure out that the people complaining about manspreading are feminists? Do you often find yourself on the receiving end of sexist slurs?

Ah, you were trolling! Sorry, I thought at first you were serious mate.

For the sake of public documentation, I'll argue:

It is confrontational because invading my personal space by using more than what's assigned to you is unnecessary and rude. Let me repeat something: I am a man and I also suffer from idiots spreading their legs like they've got balls the size of Jupiter. There's no physical nor biological reason for that, like not at all.

Women don't do it. I'm sure you can show me one example of a woman doing it, I can show you 2-3 men per bus trip, easily. It's a matter of education, how we have been educated. Men are educated to become alpha, to use their body to an advantage. Women are educated to be quiet and submissive.

It's not "feminine" to sit spreading your legs. It's very masculine to spread legs and arms, to show a bigger physical presence.

If you can't see why that's wrong then there's little hope for you. Even worse, if you think "feminist" means "against men" then I'm afraid you had a terrible upbringing.

I'm not quite that tall, but I think manspreading is generally perceived as being an issue when people sit in seats that are aligned with the major axis of the vehicle, as opposed to those are are in rows.

There are so many things that are stupid about this, here is some examples:

1. IMHO this is directly sexist towards men. There are numerous socially awkward things you may do at a public transport. Why only crack down on one of them?

2. Even if manspreading would be an issue, which it is my belief that it is absolutely not, it would affect men more than women since men are generally speaking physically larger than women. Have anyone heard a man complain? EDIT: What I meant by this is that if this really was a problem, men would suffer more extensively from it.

3. This will most likely create the opposite effect and make more people spread their legs just because it is sexist in the first place.

EDIT 2:

Those who simply state that "this is an issue". Have you ever actually asked the person in question if they could take up less room? This "issue" needs a sign just as much as "women who places their handbags on other seats" or "dont stare at people intensively" or "dont dig out your nose in front of everyone" or "dont talk very loudly in the cellphone" or "dont play a music instrument". Also, since this is a it and startup related forum, where the fuck is the actual evidence that this is an issue?

If you would make a sign of every single bad behavior on a public transport, there would be no room for anything else. Just talk to people and if you are too afraid to, that itself is a way larger issue for you than people taking up too much space.

I know at least that if this would come in my hometown, I would manspread in every fucking ride.

1. Manspreading isn't "socially awkward" except in the very best case; more frequently, it makes seats that should be available unusable.

a. It is an issue. I live in Boston, which has a pretty good public transit system, and I'll usually see one or two manspreaders per train car I ride.

b. You're conflating "taking up more space as a result of body size" with "maximizing the amount of space consumed". No one is complaining about the Andre the Giant-sized guy for whom it's impossible to keep it to one seat. I'm a relatively broadly-built/tall man, and I don't have any trouble keeping myself in one seat while riding the train, which makes me very skeptical of anyone else who claims that stretching out is necessary.

3. Well, if that's the case, then at least we'll know who the assholes are.

1. true, women doing makeup getting covered in dust and eyeshadow is not fun.

2. it is an issue. Plus for some reason men don't tend to do it as often when they sit next to each other or if they do generally one turns and spreads their legs into the aisle making it difficult for the people standing there or hard for people to get off the train.

#1 - they probably do crack down on other behaviours, so I don't think the overall policies would be considered sexist

#2 - it does annoy men, none of the signs indicate that only women are complaining (although the article does give that impression)

#3 - sometimes making people consciously aware that their behaviour is inappropriate does work

> Even if manspreading would be an issue, which it is my belief that it is absolutely not, ...

This leads me to believe that you haven't actually see it in action, and I wonder how much you travel on public transport. Absolutely it is a problem - I can't tell you how often my physical space has been unnecessarily "spread into" by this sort of thing.

> ... it would affect men more than women since men are generally speaking physically larger than women.

My observation is that men simply don't "manspread" into another man's space. It's very much a dominance thing. It's ugly, it's obnoxious, and it's borderline threatening.

I have no faith that this initiative will have any effect, but it most definitely is an issue.

I have seen it in action and said "excuse me" when I sat down. He made room for me. Would you believe that?

I have seen people sit next to a manspreader, said "Excuse me," and been completely ignored, thereby being forced either to push them physically, or shrink away from them.

Would you believe that?

Not everyone is happy with asking someone who is encroaching on their space to move. You may feel this isn't a problem. My observations tell me it is.

Would you believe that?

Yes I would believe that. But I would not believe it is the case that is a societal problem that needs a sexist sign.

2. I'm a man and my space has been invaded multiple times by manspreaders in the subway in my youth. I absolutely despise this behavior and there is no excuse to continue.

Funny thing is, I see women taking up more space than they need about as often as men. Not with their legs spread wide, perhaps, but by sitting sidewise, or plopping their bag on a seat. It's rude, but it's not gender-specific. I mean, call it what you will, but I think pretending only men do it is only likely to make people treat this less seriously.

(And the sign doesn't actually say man-spreading, so no real issue there)

Finally, the real societal issues are getting the attention they deserve.

There's a reason men spread their legs: it's hot down there, we need to cool it.

Also, how about shebagging? And all the other unacceptable behavior people have in public transportation? I've seen people clipping their nails, blasting music(?) on their phone, etc

We're headed down a dangerous path with these regulations.

what is shebagging? Sounds like we should stop coining phrases like these that fuel debate on sexism

It's the practice by a female passenger on public transport of placing a bag on the seat next to them.

I agree...though one must admit it has a clever ring to it. :)

It's not a regulation, it's just a sign.

Curious if signs have any effect on behavior that the perpetrator probably already knows is rude.

Maybe it just works by allowing those seated next to them to point at the sign?

This is a bullshit issue. I take the bus and the subway almost every day and this never happens. I hate first world feminism.

Because you're probably the one spreading. I am a man and I suffer it all the time, including in fucking flights.

It would be great to see tube tickets priced by weight as you step through the barriers. Lots of fat people and tourists (with bags) taking up room makes traveling on the tube much more uncomfortable than it needs to be.

It's not a weight issue. Many manspreaders aren't particularly fat, they just try to take up as much space as possible.

That's irony, right? If so, please keep it to yourself. If not, do so anyway.

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