We Know Not the Hour, but Alex Did | Hacker News Reader

We Know Not the Hour, but Alex Did

nationalreview.com

109 pointswallflower47 comments

Superb bit of writing there. Wow.

All of us could only dream that one day somebody would write such a beautiful eulogy when we pass.

I honestly had no idea where this was going until the end, and it hit me like a ton of bricks -- which is exactly what the writer wanted and exactly how it must have felt to his friends.

Sorry I didn't know you, Big Al, you sound like quite a character.

The first paragraph (or maybe it's the sub-head) is "This will be a day none here at National Review and NRI soon forget. This is the day Alex died." So I clearly knew where it was going and it still hit me like a ton of bricks.

It's a great obit. And when I read it I immediately wondered if he was yet another adult who never got an autism diagnosis: never married and not super social but also not standing on ceremony even with intimidating people like Buckley, obsessed with model trains and their tiny variations, punctual and clearly loving routine, chose work in a mailroom that was all about organization and making order from chaos, and so on.

I'm curious... What benefit would you expect a high functioning autistic person like Alex (if he was) receive out of getting diagnosed?

I don't think s/he said it would result in benefit either way.

*she

Yeah, it probably wouldn't have mattered to him one way or another, since he was apparently a happy and gainfully employed adult, but it's helpful to remember that autistic people have always been here, not some recent invention or "epidemic".

A diagnosis may have helped him get medical care, which would have prevented his early death.

Diagnosis in and of itself is often welcomed by people with Autism. This is mentioned in all the English guidance (The Autism Act 2009, the Autism Act Statutory Guidance 2015; the NICE guidance 2012, the national strategy "Fulfilling and rewarding lives" and the newer national strategy "Think Autism") which all talks about the importance of diagnosis as a first step to understanding yourself and getting other people to accept you as you are.

Diagnosis is also an important step in getting services you need.

While I don't disagree with you on the benefits of a diagnosis, there is also a decidedly negative side to it. So much so that apparently it's a common practice to warn undiagnosed adults that they might not want to be diagnosed at this point, partly because they made it this far (to put it a bit bluntly) and partly because at least at this time there's not always much that can be done as far as treatment goes.

That said, there's a high chance of comorbidity when it comes to things like OCD and AD(H?)D, and especially the latter can be treated.

(I'm not a licensed psychologist, so don't take this as advice not to get diagnosed. Just providing a counterpoint.)

> Al fit into one category: Al.

I interpreted this sentence as declining to discuss it, but yeah, it's pretty obvious.

There appears to be a YouTube channel. Dedicated largely to model trains:

https://m.youtube.com/user/yardlet6/featured

I'm not buying the obit writer's hypothesis that Al knew he was going to die and wanted to be around coworkers so as not to die alone.

But I _am_ extremely impressed that this was, apparently, written on the very day Al died. I wonder if 2017 will be known as the year when same-day obituaries became a thing. What a time to be alive! Or ... in Al's case ...

I doubt it applies in this case, but many newspapers have obituaries on file (periodically updated, of course) for famous persons, just in case they need one soon.

They would still have to finish it when the day comes they need it, but at least they wouldn't have to rush to get things like the birth date, name of first wife, etc. right.

So, same-day obituaries aren't that rare.

> Al went to the walk-in medical clinic located next door to NR. Little good that did.

This doesn't give me confidence in the health system. How is it possible that they couldn't diagnose a life threatening condition? Are these clinics being audited?

What an unfair and unnecessary way to go. RIP Alex.

There is a wide spectrum of possibilities here. On one end you have malpractice. On the other end, you have a patient that ignored the clinic's advice.

> This doesn't give me confidence in the health system.

Thing is, those walk in clinics aren't meant to be a like for like replacement for hospitals/ERs and absolutely aren't equipped to handle, treat or even fully diagnose all forms of illness/injury.

They know that as well as anyone; I'd be willing to wager they told him to go to the ER and he didn't.

It can be reasonable to provide little or no treatment for a moderate infection, with advice to seek further care if it becomes worse.

Many viral infections can be unpleasant and run their course in a day or 2.

Just like troubleshooting computers, you hear hooves, think horses not zebras. A massive infection of lungs and stomach, what in the world happened to that guy?

This isn't the first story I've heard about a walk-in clinic providing sub-par care. The last was someone who went in with chest pains and was told to go home and that they were fine. When they went to a real hospital they were immediately sent into the OR for emergency bypass surgery (and thankfully survived).

I flagged this (I flag lots of things, but rarely say so anymore) because this appears to be a real person who died recently, and the only place I can see this thread going is political --- not least because of where it's running.

It's a well written obit. I'm sorry for these people's loss.

It's true, and I had the same concerns. In fact the site is banned, as are most political sites (or penalized) on HN, and a user had to vouch for it.

But the thread (edit: mostly, or barely) hasn't gone there, probably because the heartfeltness of the article is so plain, and also because it manages to be unexpectedly substantive. The fact that it was written just hours after a sudden shock is noteworthy too. I'd say the article rises not just above its genre or its site but the entire category the site belongs to. There's something right about doing that in tribute to one unique human being.

It would take a sad sort of person to make that obituary political.

All of us know a Big Al from somewhere. It would be nice to leave out speculation about whether he was on the spectrum and speculation about the health care system. He's dead. They miss him. It's pretty simple, really.

RIP Alex. May Jesus be your tag-team partner.

I don't see how speculation hurts anyone, least of all Alex. Care to elaborate?

> Big Al (fact: he wasn’t big) was the most punctual and reliable of NR workers

> Why in God’s name did he come in to the offices of National Review this day? To me it is obvious. Alone in the world except for a loving sister, who lived far away, Alex Batey knew that he had arrived at the hour that will arrive for all of us. But he didn’t want to die alone. And he didn’t.

Can't say if that's accurate or not but it feels fishy that the interpretation is that Alex was ready to die and wanted to spend it with co-workers, coming from another coworker.

Have you read the text at all?

Sorry to be that guy, but clearly 'big Al' was the office loner (not to say loser) who nobody can really hold anything against but at the same time everybody's happy when you don't have to interact too much with him. Sister living far away and nobody else besides co-workers in his life he may have hoped that someday somebody would walk up to him and ask what's going on, reach out and offer help.

But hey! that was our funny, kinda awkward 'big Al', what can you do about it? Fuck, this story made me so sad!

Yes I did read the text. But these aren't Al's words, these are a co-workers words, and we have to interpret them through his point of view. That's why I said it's fishy.

Also,

> Please don't insinuate that someone hasn't read an article.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

I know and I normally don't do this, so please forgive my rather emotional response. But this obituary made me kind of angry.

To comment on your original point:

I really think there's nothing fishy about it. He probably really wanted to be there, because his co-workers were the only other people in his life. I think the author was spot-on with his analysis, but just left it at that and some 'playful' anecdotes about his co-workers 'quirks' without questioning if maybe there's something to be learned from this, what I would call tragic and lonely death.

The reason it isn't fishy is that the author makes it clear that it's just his subjective view ("to me"). This is an elegy, and he's right to be elegaic.

(Thanks for knowing the site guidelines btw...)

Never really thought I'd see a NR article on HN. Good stuff, great obit, RIP Alex.

The fact that his options were a small walk-in clinic and the ER (which he apparently did not go to) is a sad indictment of the state of health care in the USA.

If the National Review wasn't ideologically opposed to the very idea of nationalized healthcare this would have been a good cause to reflect on the systemic issues that caused him to have limited options for treatment l, and that may have hastened his death

What other options would you expect? Lots of folks don't have, or are between, primary-care physicians, especially one that can see you within a few days. Even in countries with single-payer health care like Canada, these would be the same two options present.

Maybe an ER that will not charge an arm and a leg?

The minimum charge one can expect for just walking into ER is in the ballpark of $20k. Just for having a nurse look at you and administrate an IV.

If you have insurance, it may come down to something like $2k. It's silly money, unless you know you are dying otherwise.

The article didn't say that he didn't have insurance. It sounds like he was a longstanding full-time employee who almost certainly had insurance through his employer.

Maybe you missed the last sentence?

> If you have insurance, it may come down to something like $2k. It's silly money, unless you know you are dying otherwise.

An ER visit can be expensive, but that number clearly incorrect. Were you just exaggerating for emphasis?

The numbers are based on my only visit to ER.

I was charged almost $20k for an IV and an ECG. The doctor saw me for less than 10sec.

Out of pocket ended up around $1,500.

My only adult trip to the ER a few years ago was lower, but similar-ish.

Ambulance ride, afternoon in the ER, an MRI, an X-ray, and no treatment needed, came to $9,000, of which I paid $6,000 after insurance.

That said, I know plenty of people who go to the ER dozens of times a year for minor things like colds.

I'd expect a first world healthcare system, but the USA lacks that.

So at the very least I'd expect the National Review to not try to lionize itself over feeling sad that someone has died after they've spent their lives helping that state of affairs to happen.

Where do people with an urgent health problem on a weekend go outside of the US? It doesn't sound like cost of treatment was the problem, at least based on that.

"Where do people with an urgent health problem on a weekend go outside of the US?"

UK: We have several options. If it is non urgent then ring 111. If it is really urgent ring 999 and ask for an ambulance. If you can, then get yourself to the nearest Accident and Emergency (A&E) dept.

None of these options will involve a credit check.

For example I had a wisdom tooth snag a few years back on a Sunday morning (it hurt quite a lot.) I rang 111 and within about 1.5 hours (including 1 hour drive across Somerset) I had it removed. The NHS isn't perfect but sometimes it feels like it. I have several other anecdotes that are less complimentary about it and some other good ones but in general I'm a major fan.

Please don't take this thread into political battle. It's a loving, specific article, not an angry generic one.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14533509 and marked it off-topic.

Healthcare is inherently political.

This article shows nothing but disregard for the cause of his death: awful healthcare.

It shows a stunningly blind lack of compassion. It's a self congratulatory pat on the back when they are opposed to everything that could have helped.

It's political because it's the national review.

You don't know the cause of his death. You're making that up to score a political point, which is exactly the wrong spirit to comment here in.

I asked you to not take this thread into political battle, precisely because healthcare is political and the National Review even more so (the site is normally banned on HN for that reason).

It's possible not to reduce every conversation to a repetition of the same talking points, but it takes an effort, and that's the space HN is trying hard to inhabit.

Wonder why a guy came in sick to the anti-labor publication that publishes vile bullshit like a Kevin Williamson piece shitting on the poor people he evicted from a home he inherited: http://www.nationalreview.com/article/447292/underclass-char...

What a self-serving narrative that an employee must have come in when terminally ill because he "didn't want to die alone" instead of that he was falling in line with the calvinist dogshit work culture this publication helped to sustain. Fuck the national review, I hope Alex finally got some peace.

We ban accounts that use HN primarily for political and ideological battle. Since that's how you've been using it, we've banned this account.

https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&prefix=false&page=0&date...

We do this because, regardless of the politics and ideology you favor, it poisons the site for its intended use, which is the gratification of intellectual curiosity (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html). One is about flamewars and smiting enemies, the other is about thoughtful conversation. Can't do both at the same time.

If you think politics is not the realm of intellectual curiosity and that there's nothing political about this article you're a fucking sickening human being.

While yes, there probably is a political leaning to most things one reads... There is a time and place to promote such a discussion, especially when dealing with obituaries.. Perhaps this isn't either the time nor the place.

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