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Comment by mercantile | Hacker News Reader

Going to Toastmasters seems to be the universal Internet standard advice for improving public speaking, but I'm not so sure about it.

I'm coming from a similar place of intense public speaking anxiety as the parent poster, and so attended my local Toastmasters, and at the first session mostly just observed. The hour was ~20 people who have been doing this for years giving highly refined talks to each other.

It was somewhat valuable seeing good speakers in their element, but to someone like me who's coming in with unrefined speaking manners and an anxiety problem, it was a total no-go. It probably varies by chapter, but I realized that Toastmasters wasn't a support group for bad speakers, it was a group of good speakers working to become great speakers.

That's not to say they wouldn't have been supportive and all, but in my opinion Toastmasters isn't an environment for overcoming anxiety at the low end. Of course, your mileage may vary.

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Maybe you visited a particularly bad group for beginners? Or maybe you were just too anxious, and needed an extra kick so that you'd let them be supportive?

The Toastmasters are a standard advice for a reason. Public speaking is entirely a learnable skill. You quickly get better with practice, but that supportive element of other people is required to overcome strong stage anxiety if you have one.

I think it might be worth it to try approaching one of the members and telling them, "I'm new here, I'm really bad at public speaking and want to get better, but I'm anxious because you all are such expert speakers already; can you help me?". If the Toastmasters group is worth anything, they'll put extra effort to make you feel comfortable.

You have to remember that most people there have started at the same place you're at right now. You even said it in your post.

>The hour was ~20 people who have been doing this for years...

That sounds like a goldmine of knowledge and experience to learn from. Find someone from that group who is willing to mentor you. Heck, the Leadership booklet has a checklist with one of the items being to mentor someone.

Talk to the people in the group about where you're coming from and what you'd like to come away with. I find that the people who are a part of Toastmasters are pretty supportive. Of course, groups can vary. But with a sample size of 20, you're bound to find someone.

Thanks for the response.

> You have to remember that most people there have started at the same place you're at right now. You even said it in your post.

So this is the part I disagree with. Everyone gets nervous doing public speaking, but there are some of us who get really nervous to the point that physical symptoms are, without a word of exaggeration, debilitating. Just getting up in front of that room and giving a crappy talk would have been very, very hard.

> That sounds like a goldmine of knowledge and experience to learn from. Find someone from that group who is willing to mentor you. Heck, the Leadership booklet has a checklist with one of the items being to mentor someone.

You're right, and I really don't want to slight the group here -- the interactions I had and everyone I spoke to was extremely supportive, it's just that getting spun up to their level would have an incredible daunting order even give months/years of work. I should give it another shot, but I just didn't see a path forward there at the time.

Right, the debilitating physical symptoms are the thing. It's not about being a good or bad speaker. Like you said, I'd be happy to get to the point of just being a plain "bad" speaker. There are times when even reading the words on a slide, verbatim, is excruciating. It's an entirely irrational autonomic response.

> but I realized that Toastmasters wasn't a support group for bad speakers, it was a group of good speakers working to become great speakers.

No, it's very much a support group for people who want to become better speakers. Did you only attend one session?

Yes, you could have gotten a bad chapter, but that's the exception. Toastmasters are incredibly supportive of people just starting out. In general, they are the best group of people to speak in front of. They are respectful, encouraging, and even for many who are good, still very nervous when they go up to speak (even if you don't see it).

Good to know, I have not attended one yet (but plan to), so I appreciate hearing from people who have.

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