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Comment by seiferteric | Hacker News Reader

Does anyone think we might start seeing a brain drain out of the US given the current political climate?

Possibly. I've seriously begun to consider ways in which I could get set up over seas. I've always wanted to spend some time abroad anyway. It's very hard for me to see a way that the US can get back on track at this point. Most of Congress doesn't seem to really care about the damage that Trump is doing to our reputation. Furthermore, Republicans have successfully neutered (through gerrymandering) the system that would otherwise keep them in check. The outlook is very dim.

It would be optimistic to count on it, but one of the few ways the US political system could get back on track is through the scale of crisis we may be heading for.

The question is whether one can stomach living here while that crisis is ongoing.

I could see post Trump the POTUS having powers taken away by the slightly more grown up house and senate.

Dropping the 18th century method of nominating candidates and moving to a OMOV where only paid up members vote would make sense and eliminate the "Nutter" problem and that's using Nutter in its political sense, it would reduce the waste of money involved in the electoral process.

Just to be clear, to which crisis are you referring? Increasing polarization? The shit with Russia? All of these things? Something else?

Russia is the acute crisis, and the increasing polarization is the chronic condition which may have partially caused it and might possibly be resolved by it.

This falls under "pro" correct?

And, to that end, does anyone have any advice?

if ur in tech.. I've heard great things about Chiang Mai and they digital nomad scene.

Yes. Most of the educated Americans I know are assessing emigration in a more-than-idle-dreams way.

By 2020 I expect that the most risk-accepting and flexible Americans - the creme de la creme for new ideas and new businesses - will be gone.

And what are the preferred destinations?

If I didn't own property and were single, I'm 100% confident that I would have already packed my things and left. I was heartbroken on election night, and I am heartbroken now. As much as I understand the argument that I should stay and fight for what I believe, every instinct in my body is telling me to flee, before things get really awful.

I would suggest selling and finding a role in the EU.

Allegedly happening already: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/14/technology/new-zealand-te...

> I'd rather spend my mental energy and my money fixing my own country TBH. I expect to be gone within the year.

I'm glad that you can go back and try to fix your country (dunno which one that is). In my case, I just can't.

When I came to America, I immediately fell in love with it. The best thing I like about it is how it doesn't give a fuck about so many things. There is a very refreshing 'new world' attitude in America which nearly no other country in the world carries (mostly because they're so old).

I would admit that in past 8-9 years (mostly since 2008 financial crises) the country has become more pessimist while majority of third world has felt more optimist, but I'd say that the old world attitude of the rest of the world will be a hurdle to them and the 'new world' attitude of America would be to it's rescue.

Either way, I wish you best of luck. If you made an attempt to get a GC in America, I presume that you've been infected by that American 'new world' attitude and once you go back, you'd see it clash in your home country with others.

What is your home country?

I think so. In my field, law, a good number of my friends* (including myself) are actively looking for jobs abroad. And applying for said jobs. I cannot speak for everyone I know, but the regressive/repressive nature of this administrations platform is enough to encourage me out of this country.

* anecdote/anecdata, I know.

Yes, but bear in mind:

* where else will people go? The UK, for example, is also in an anti-immigrant mood. Though Canada may still be good.

* the current political climate in the US is ... unstable. It'll be significantly different in a year or two, one way or another.

Canada has always been fairly hard to get into... just like most countries you have to bring more to the table than they would be giving you.

The rest of Europa still welcomes immigrants. Berlin might not be silicon valley but the're enough exciting opportunities there and you could argue that the quality of living is higher than the bay area.

Besides that Amsterdam, Paris and Barcelona are also great contenders. All have their upsides and downsides but any decent software engineer is going to be able to live an enjoyable life there.

Australia is also a great option, migrating there is a tad more difficult but a young software engineer is very welcome. Capital requirements if you're older are really steep though.

the UK could be broadly described as anti-low-skilled immigration

most of the UK electorate support increasing the level of highly skilled migration

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/half-of-britis...

That's hardly the same as a guarantee that highly skilled immigrants and their families don't face difficulties and risks in coming to the UK.

For example, last time I looked at the UK papers they were full of cases of EU citizens, who should have indefinite leave to reside in the UK, being harrassed by the Home Office and threatened with deportation.

every case I've read about has received the standard automatic rejection letter for not filling in the form correctly (e.g. for not including your passport)

given the Home Office never expected EU migrants to apply for permanent residency, the response was appropriate prior to the referendum result

it no longer is, and the Home Office now have updated guidance on the matter

I'm sure it wasn't nice to receive that letter, but it just a case of the government bureaucratic machine responding at glacial speed to change, as normal

Fwiw, I've been to the US on business trips a few times and about 5 years ago, I decided to not consider US as a long term possibility. I have since then spent 2.5 years in Singapore[1], 1.5 in Germany and now will be moving to Ireland (hopefully for a longer term). Even though I know deep down somewhere that I'm sacrificing the potential of advancing financially and careerwise, I still don't feel I'm actually welcomed in the US, like I felt in all these other countries.

[1] yes, I know about the rep it has but unless you have lived and experienced it, you would never realise that there really isn't a "one true way" of democracy and everything is a trade-off. That's all I'm saying about that.

Oh it's already happening...Just listen to Emmanuel Macron's english statement that just aired a few seconds ago.. he literally just issued an open invitation to all U.S scientist and innovators to "come to France" where he's basically guaranteeing them support.

Wow.. what a HUGE missed opportunity for the United States to not only lead on this issue but to dictate the economic terms of the creation of an industry that could rival that of the Oil industry at its peak when it's all said and done. China recently scheduled a meeting world leaders in which i'm sure they will take the lead. #shame

What makes you so sure that the "current political climate" is not making people want to move there? I certainly want to now that Trump got elected, and I'm a libertarian.

No, not really. If it stays like this for 20+ years, then definitely.

Umm, I think people who say things like "20+ years..." haven't been paying attention to the change in rate of large scale social change over the last few decades.

Do you really think anyone could have predicted today in 1997 ? (today as in, Brexit, Trump, Nsa/Privacy, Fb...etc)

Well, The Simpsons in 2000 predicted President Trump.

And I'm not exactly sure what surprises you about the NSA, I think many civil-liberties groups in 1997 would have been happy to talk your ear off about their (reasonable or unreasonable) surveillance concerns.

The things you mentioned are so insignificant I doubt there will be more than a section about them in the history books.

In 1997 the EU was only 4 years old! Clinton was using submarines to tap undersea cables. AOL was connecting households around the country.

I don't agree that these changes are large scale compared to 20 years ago. Looks like the cycle is repeating itself and only the names have changed.

There were people not using cell phones in 1997 because of the privacy implications.

I guess they were making some assumptions that they would likely apply to modern tech.

Sure, but the idea that all of a sudden we aren't going to have MIT, Stanford, Caltech, Google, Facebook, and all these other world-class, leading institutions because of 4 years of Trump is nonsense. If we had 4 years of Trump for 5x as long, then yeah maybe it would start. But that's not going to happen.

Already happening.

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