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I used to think the evenings when the whole family is asleep was the best time to get in the zone as well. But then I would be up until 3am and have a hard time sleeping. Grogginess would linger around the next day, and my wife and kids would get the short, irritable side of me. I felt I was constantly fighting to be productive.

Now, I have an exercise routine in the mornings. I wake up with my 2 daughters (both under 3) at ~7am and immediately setup for a 30min workout video. The kids love routine, so they adapted very easily. I make breakfast after cooling down, my wife is able to have a peaceful shower, then around 9am she takes over. I think that moment to herself in the morning helps her to reset for another crazy day.

Now I hit the shower and my mind now starts to lock in. I start creating a mental agenda of what I need to get done. Feeling rejuvenated, I hit the ground running. Creativity and focus now flow naturally throughout the day. I usually feel super productive and accomplished by dinner time. It is easy to let go and be ready to join the family. Sometimes I continue working through dinner, but no screens after 10pm has given me massive productivity gains.

I used to be like this. And the problem was, because there was no pattern to my sleep, I found out extremely difficult to sleep, even when I wanted to.

A few things helped me. First, I started logging my sleep. It helped me analyze how much sleep I was really getting. Second, this sounds simplistic, but I first fixed the waking time. Irrespective of the time I sleep, I started waking up at the exact same time everyday. And finally, I stopping using all gadgets at least for 2 hours before my sleep time.

I see a marked improvement in the quality of my sleep these days. Hope you beat your problem too.

For the fixed wakeup time:

1. What do you do if in a situation where you'll get a low amount of sleep. Nap mid day? 2. What about social stuff? I'd love to get up at 8 am most days, but then any social event in the evening throws that off.

Naps might fix the latter, but I have trouble napping due to onset insomnia. Unless I'm extremelt fatigued.

Try having a kid ;)

Ours gets me up between 6 and 7am every day. If I'm up late the night before I just end up going to be super early the next day and things even out.

Skip the naps; take the tiredness as punishment, go to bed at a fixed time. The trick is consistency, and a nap will interrupt said consistency. Usually you can function fine with a few hours less sleep, as long as it's not a regular event.

Punishment for having a good time Friday night until 6am, then waking up at 7am your usual time? Seems unreasonable

You want to stick to a sleep schedule but also break it and still have it work the same? Seems unreasonable.

Was more referring to how he says don't nap. Why can't I wake up at 7 on Saturday and then have an afternoon nap

I don't need "punishment" for something I want to do (stay out on Friday)

those times its ok to sleep until 10 am. 4 hours of sleep will get you through the day. its important to not sleep too much or you will not be tired enough to fall asleep at night.

i also want to add thats its better to get 6 hours of deep sleep then trying to sleep and basically awake whole night.

and best tip to get tired is to wake up early and do some exercise during the day.

also eat at the same times every day.

routines x3

Pick a time and stick to it. Doesn't matter how little sleep you get.

It also helps to have a meal as soon as you get up. And meal is anything with calories in it. I.e. a cabbage leaf is fine.

This helps reset your circadian rhythm (great for jetlag too).

I'm assuming this is just temporary and eventually it's just smooth sailing and you get sleepy?

What do you do with social events etc though. Nap? Just be tired? If they're 1-2x per week I guess I'd need a later fixed time.

> I'm assuming this is just temporary and eventually it's just smooth sailing and you get sleepy?

No, you pick something you want permanent and just do it.

Eating early after waking is helpful. I drink tea with L-Theanine before bed and reduce blue light. I take melatonin when I really need it, which is rare.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22214254

I'm not naturally an early riser.

> What do you do with social events etc though. Nap?

I eat low carb, I drink a lot of water and I exercise. Makes it a lot harder to be too tired to function. Only 4 hours of sleep? That's tough, rework your day to only do non creative things that don't require too much thinking. Admin, emails etc.

I also have a 10 month old which helps me avoid social situations that are not valuable.

I guess I should have added the caveat that I want to be getting eight hours fairly consistently. How often would you say you have less.

When doing heavy weight training, it's more or less a necessity.

(No kid at this point, I'm sure that will change things once I do have once)

> I guess I should have added the caveat that I want to be getting eight hours fairly consistently. How often would you say you have less.

Right now, I'm sleep training a baby, so less. My goal is 7 hours and I really enjoy 8. And I can get this consistently.

> When doing heavy weight training, it's more or less a necessity.

I've been a gym rat for many years and I can attest to this. Not enough sleep and your tanks are empty, no power.

> (No kid at this point, I'm sure that will change things once I do have once)

Kids make you focus. You cut out things you wasted time on and you're back to where you were. Less time wasty, more family and relationship. Works out well.

Thanks! I appreciate the detailed replies. Going to test this.

> I'm assuming this is just temporary and eventually it's just smooth sailing and you get sleepy?

After reading this again. Yes, the goal is a habit that puts you into a rhythm. The place you want to be is to not need an alarm to wake up and to wake up with light (natural or not). Now I like sleeping too much for this to work. I'll happily stay in bed for 10 hours. More than that and my body starts hurting...

( Artificial: http://www.usa.philips.com/c-m-li/light-therapy/wake-up-ligh... )

I get to bed at a fixed time. If I haven't had enough sleep then I take a 15 minute coffee nap in the afternoon. Try exercise daily. Disclaimer: I'm a reformed night owl.

> When everyone but me is asleep it's so peaceful and quiet, and I can read, slay work dragons, learn stuff, or just veg. Unfortunately this usually results in maybe six low quality hours of sleep. And I pay for it in distractibility, moodiness, not as smart as I am when well rested, etc. ...I actually feel worse much of the time. More tired, speak less clearly, slow thought... It sucks.

Are you me?

No, he is me. :)

I feel this way about getting up really early. It's a great feeling. And by around 9 I've made a LOT of progress. That feels even better...

I'd love to get a 9-5 sleep pattern. Sleep at 9pm, wake at 5am.

Two questions.

Why?

And why don't you?

The question I used to ask myself, that helped me make a conscious decision: Are two extra hours a day worth operating poorly for the other 16? Even if you're at 90% of your normal operating capacity (understanding that the mind is not quite that easy to quantify), that means that you lose over three hours of productivity just to gain those extra two.

Thinking of it along those lines - valuing quality over quantity - helped encourage me to create a fixed sleeping schedule.

One other thing that helps - do things in stretches. 4 hours of slaying dragons once a week is a lot more fun than half an hour 7 times a week.

> But overcoming the size of deficit I've got isn't pleasant either. I actually feel worse much of the time.

I'm glad I'm not alone in this. On a stable, moderate sleep deficit (often 6 hours, like you), I feel ok. I'm used to it, I'm not exhausted, it's alright. I pay in attentiveness and memory, but it's bearable.

As I start to dig out, I feel like shit. I don't know if it's the changing schedule or some 'expectation' from my body of actually good sleep, but I feel groggy, distractable, and generally useless. It takes many days of consistent recovery (often ~9 hours) to shake that off, and only a few days of error to fall back into the routine.

Is ~6 hours low ? After I started working out before work I started getting up ~6-6:30 but I can't go to sleep much earlier than 12 (I just end up rolling around in bed) - but I've been doing this for so long now I can't really tell the difference. I sleep over on the weekends but I don't notice extra productivity or being rested.

I'll try to go to sleep at 22:30 this week to see if I feel different.

As the article mentioned, "low" is relative as different people require different amounts of sleep. 6 hours might be totally fine for you while someone else would be a complete zombie.

Personal needs vary, but also know that you can stabilize on chronic low sleep and not even know it. I did a few years getting ~6 hours most days, and felt ok. I eventually ended up getting 8-9 for quite a while (months), recovered, and now quite literally feel better than I knew I could.

A simple, funny example: I always thought I was prone to getting songs stuck in my head. It turns out I'm not unless I'm sleep deprived, but that was such a constant state that I never knew there was an alternative.

Yea, I've been feeling 'off' for a while now but so many moving things and any one could be it - will try sleeping more for a week to see if it makes a difference.

Wow, you just described my problem 100% accurately.

So, what do we do?!

Live with the choices you've made and get enough sleep. You can't do everything the world has to offer.

What about setting a bedtime for yourself? Treat it like other events, meetings, or work. Whether 10, or 11 or whatever time will give you the chance to sleep enough given whatever time you need to get up.

A lot of life org problems are good candidates for solving through scheduling ...