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Comment by jaclaz | Hacker News Reader

While it is perfectly possible that a scanning device disappeared somewhere, it is not the only way someone can study how to conceal hidden explosive in luggage.

I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours?

Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these devices?

Does the same happen for all designers of these devices?

Or if you prefer, do you believe that such a scanning machine cannot be re-built from commercial parts by someone who knows their innards?

Are ALL purchases of new scanners subject to governemnet approval (and even if yes, which government)?

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Hi jaclaz,

> I mean are the people that operate daily these machines vetted to a level where you can totally exclude that they (in ALL airports wordwide) can be affiliated to whatever evil organization and do some tests after hours?

No, although after-hours testing may set off some alarms. I'm sure their on-hours experience would be useful, though.

> Does the same happen for all technicians that maintain/repair these devices?

No.

> Does the same happen for all designers of these devices?

Nope.

> Or if you prefer, do you believe that such a scanning machine cannot be re-built from commercial parts by someone who knows their innards?

Yes, I do believe that rebuilding a modern, advanced x-ray system from scrap components is beyond the capabilities of ISIS at the moment.

> Are ALL purchases of new scanners subject to governemnet approval (and even if yes, which government)?

The modern, advanced x-ray systems are not available to the general public. As to how exactly they are controlled, I'm not sure.

See also my comments to other users regarding the differences between modern x-rays and old school ones.

My wife works in import/export compliance. There are many regulations associated with many types of technology requiring you to get licenses, "know your customer", etc. I would guess the latest and greatest of this tech for would be governed by EAR if not ITAR regulations.

ref: http://ooc.usc.edu/overview-ear-and-itar

Yep, but that applies (maybe) to the US.

What about any other country, for the sake of the example, Wherevereristan?

Do they have the same rules?

If you fly into the US, it is more than likely that not only will you have to clear airport security provided by the host country, you will also have to go through security provided by the US. It will be US equipment and US citizens operating it.

So in that sense, if Whereveristan wants to sell the airport X-ray equipment they can get, it isn't going to be useful in determining what can pass US screening.

> If you fly into the US, it is more than likely that not only will you have to clear airport security provided by the host country, you will also have to go through security provided by the US. It will be US equipment and US citizens operating it.

How common is such an arrangement? I've only ever flown to the US from Australia, and while there was a pre-boarding security check at the gate, after the main security screening at the entrance to the airside of the terminal, the staff carrying it out appear to be Australian private security guards, not US citizens. (I haven't done it for about two years now, so someone who has done it more recently would have to tell me if anything has changed.)

That's highly unlikely for most places in the world. What is often required is additional screening at or near the gate to enforce US specific rules (for example liquids in carry-ons). But that's usually not US staff and US equipment but rather extra staff enforcing US specific rules (the same way the laptop ban is currently enforced in Dubai for example).

Which are not "US Specific", liquids in carry-ons in containers larger than 100 ml are forbidden in Europe as well, this is UK as an example:

https://www.gov.uk/hand-luggage-restrictions

>The modern, advanced x-ray systems are not available to the general public. As to how exactly they are controlled, I'm not sure.

Sure they are not something that you can buy at the market around the corner, and surely they would not be cheap, but they can surely be bought by (say) financial institutions, banks, etc. (i.e. not only by airports, and public/international airports).

Now, if you can be sure that no bank (or other private financial institution) nor privately owned airport or port (or similar) worldwide may have some connections with the "bad guys" it's all fine and dandy, otherwise my previous note still stands.

I don't doubt that - as you report - the alarm may have been "triggered" by the stealing (or however vanishing) of the said machine, but from this to consider it "logic" there is a huge step.

At least the last few times I have flown (not to the US that may well have much different and more sophisticated devices) here in Europe I saw everywhere Gilardoni scanners (said to be among the best at least in Europe), like the ones published on their pages:

http://www.gilardoni.it/en_scanner-a-raggi-x.asp

And are you really sure-sure that all the scanners you can find on alibaba are tat much oudated?

https://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?SearchText=x-ray+scanne...

It doesn't seem to me like shopping for cruise missiles or the like ...

I'm certainly not arguing that DHS uses perfectly sound logic. I'm just explaining their reasoning, however flawed. I agree that this kind of "reactive" security is less than comforting.

If you have a confederate operating the machine, it would seem easier to arrange to pass through their security line than to use the knowledge to make an X-ray look-alike bomb-laden laptop.

>If you have a confederate operating the machine, it would seem easier to arrange to pass through their security line than to use the knowledge to make an X-ray look-alike bomb-laden laptop.

If you want to simply put a bomb on a single given flight from that particular airport surely yes (and with the risk that your accomplice is caught in the ensuing investigations), but having a general method is - allow me - more elegant, you can in theory embark as many such devices on as many flight as you have suicide volunteers available, leaving from any airport at any date/time.

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