My Electric Bike Is Not ‘Cheating.’ It Could Replace Cars for Millions of People
longreads.com
longreads.com
I don't care who rides what on a street. What I do care about is people riding them on small narrow paths made for cycling at best speeds, at 24-28 mph. As someone who raced for 10+ years and still rides 120ish miles a week, I don't even ride that fast around bike paths. It's just too dangerous with joggers, strollers, kids on bikes, whatever. When I see e-bikes zip past, I don't get jealous... I get pissed off. I can drop into my small cogs and ride that fast too - I just don't because it's dangerous.
And on trails, I'm sorry - I hold the stance that you can just go find a motocross trail. Mountain bikers put too much effort for too many years into getting what few trails we have built, and inexperienced people on motorcycles do nothing for keeping those trails.
So, if you want it to replace your car, then great, have it. Whether you just want to be eco-minded or got yourself a DUI - I don't care, have fun. But stop trying to use it in places we've fought to get for bicycles.
edit: gender.
Typically if a bike path exists, it's because being on 2 wheels on the main road is extremely dangerous.
I'm interested in an e-bike, not to go faster, but because they "erase" the difference between hills and flat ground, and most of my routes are too steep to be pleasant on an unpowered bicycle.
> ...I was wearing a skirt...
> posted by Pam Mandel
Still, you should have something better to contribute than just go around fixing these small mistakes.
As for "boys club", I'm sure most men in all fields of engineering would love to have more women be a) interested in it b) working in it, but women seem to be drawn to different fields and it's not going to magically be better if you go policing comment section(s) on online forums. It's even gotten to point where in everything you read these days when people are referring to any imaginary person (like user does something or another) they always talk about "her" and "she" instead of even more ambiguous "their" or "user". What I'm trying to say is that your agenda is already been pushed on multiple fronts, trying to call people out for using wrong gender in a random comment is just silly.
28 mph seems way to high for cycling roads, and as a owner of a electric bike I would too get annoyed if someone passed me at those speed.
Riding a push-bike is great for your fitness, but it's not feasible if you have a long distance to travel every day. That can be assisted by public transport, but that means you need reasonable public transport - being drenched in sweat, trying to squeeze a push-bike onto a completely packed peak-time train service isn't fun for anyone.
Motorcycles (and scooters) actually make a lot of sense, they are extremely efficient as a personal mode of transport, quick and great for travelling most distances. In many places around the world (particularly certain Asian countries) motorcycles are hugely common. I wish that were the case in western countries and that people actually took motorcycle rider safety seriously. The stigma is really "do it at your own risk", which is down-right ridiculous given I never sped, lane-split or did anything even remotely dangerous on my motorcycle. If I was going to die it was at the hands of someone else, someone whose thought-process never considered motorcycles as a legitimate means of transport, never expected them on the road, and frankly never looked out for them.
It's a shame, driving around a large 5 seat vehicle for 1 person is an enormous waste in most cases.
Perhaps it will make more sense when self-driving cars, or even just lane keeping and auto-braking cruise control become mainstream.
One in particular gives me chills. I was driving along an empty road and a car wanted to make a right-hand turn onto the road. The car driver came to a stop at the side road, we were close and it was clear enough that I made eye contact with the middle-aged woman driver. I swear she looked me right in the eyes, then she proceeded to drive right out in front of me. I swerved, slammed on the brakes and slid up next to her car (luckily there was room on a single lane road). She just waved at me apologetically. I wore a bright red and white (with reflective strips) jacket, bright green and white pants, black and white reflective helmet and my motorcycle was bright green, it was the middle of the day (but not glary) and I had my headlights on regardless.
I'm absolutely convinced she saw me, we looked right at each other, she was just in a bit of a daze and a motorbike didn't register as a car, so she just pulled out. Now, it's true she could have done the same with a car. Obviously, I can't know for sure, but I absolutely believe if bikes were more common that situation just wouldn't have happened - at least, not like it did.
EDIT: To clarify, I'm actually in Australia. So for you US folk it was a left-hand turn she was making ;)
That cyclist is in a right turning lane and rode right over a painted traffic island. Not at all suggesting that gives the car the right to drive into them. However, being stupid is something motorcyclists (and I'd assume cyclists) generally try to avoid!
The strangest thing about this video is that there's a considerable gap in traffic before the cyclist arrives at the intersection; the motorist had plenty of time to turn in front of him. I think the motorist had to have been drunk or texting or something; it almost looks like they intentionally waited to hit him.
I try to ride my e-bike very defensively -- and indeed I've never been hit by a car, though I've had a couple of close calls -- but I'm not at all sure I would have avoided this one.
I agree the cyclist should have been in the left lane, though as a cyclist I also understand why he wasn't, but seems to me it should never surprise anyone when another vehicle continues in a straight line at a constant speed, notwithstanding the road markings. He was clearly not going to make the right turn; he was going much too fast, and made no movement in that direction. I think if the motorist had seen him at all they would waited for him to go by.
Anecdotally, I became a better car driver after just a few weeks of simply learning to ride a motorcycle on public roads.
If you're taking it seriously and respect the danger, you learn how to drive as if you are invisible. You learn to pay attention to and anticipate the movements of other drivers, to look at their wheels and not their eyes. Eyes lie, wheels do not.
You learn just how careless a shocking majority of people are behind the wheel of a two ton vehicle. You peek into every window for the glimpse of a hand reaching for a turn signal stalk, and all too often see a horrifying lack of attention paid to the road and a surplus of attention paid to a phone, eating, putting makeup on, putting contact lenses in, and smoking pot.
You learn to never hang out in a bind spot. Never!
You avoid situations where a car turning left in front of you (USA) has poor visibility. Usually due to a left turn lane and tight conditions. This exact scenario is responsible for a large percentage of moto accidents and anecdotally I have had two close calls myself, and I'm a highly cautious rider.
You avoid positions on the road which are statistically dangerous for riders.
Obviously these are things you can learn in a car, but it's just different. The stakes are higher for small accidents and you really are invisible to many people, even with hi-vis gear, motorcycles are just smaller at the end of the day and Americans are not used to them nor trained to keep them in mind on the road.
Car drivers should be doing the same, but it's entirely too easy to get complacent.
- We're trained to look and anticipate much further down the road than car drivers are.
- Unlike car drivers, we don't get to space out and rely on our mental autopilots to wake us up when something goes off-nominal. It's a much more active and deliberate process.
- We develop a "sixth sense" for when cars are going to change lanes without signaling (there are lots of cues: driver head movement, matching speed to find an open space, wheels turning, etc) and tend to catch these events far, far ahead of our current positions.
- Rounding curves is a highly deliberate process for motorcyclists, one of the biggest components being "look all the way through the turn." Since learning to ride, I no longer get surprised by developments around a corner, because I've been looking at and planning around them since before I entered the corner. I also get more frustrated by my A-pillar thwarting this attempt, lean so I can see around it, and would be less likely to buy a car with a dangerously enormous A-pillar like a Prius.
- Less safety-related, but I also now drive the way you're supposed to ride: slow down approaching the corner to create plenty of distance from the car ahead of you, look all the way through and plan your path through it, then accelerate through that path. Decelerating through a curve/turn is horrible for motorcycle stability and I get pissed off when people brake through curves in front of me, even in a car.
I'm fairly excited about the Arcimoto SRK[1], which is supposed to be available in small quantities this year. It's supposed to be snappy and stable, goes up to highway speeds, and should be a fair bit safer than a motorcycle with the frame and roll cage. At $12k base, you're definitely paying a premium for the electric aspect, but I think it's reasonable. It's at least close to electric motorcycles (like Zeros[2]). How the weirdness of a three-wheeled vehicle (I see them around, but not often) will stack up against safety stigma remains to be seen.
[1] https://www.arcimoto.com/ [2] http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/
- LIES, LIES, LIES ABOUT RANGE -- I have a Gigabyke (gigabyke.com) which ships with an SLA battery (a horrible design desicion) and claims a range of 35 miles and a maximum rider weight of 250 pounds. Good luck. I weigh half that and when I got it new, I clocked in exactly 23 miles before the battery crapped out. In Palo Alto, on flat ground, with no wind, on a nice sunny day. It struggles up hills. They really should have said "maxmum range 20 miles" and "maximum weight 150 pounds" if they wanted to be honest to customers. I replaced the battery with an aftermarket Lithium battery and get more acceptable performance now, but that does take some EE handywork.
- REGULATION -- In California at least, it's technically a motorcycle if it goes past 20 mph. People hate seeing your electric bike on bike paths though. So you're forced to travel with 35-40 mph cars. On something that's hard-limited to 20 mph because of some silly law. The 20 mph limit actually makes them more unsafe. (This likely applies to a lot of US states. China doesn't have this problem; most electric bikes there don't have artifically imposed limits and are only limited by their motors.)
- RED LIGHTS -- they never turn green, at least in much of the Bay Area. You're forced to run them because the sensors can't sense you. And it's illegal to ride onto the sidewalk to hit the pedestrian crossing light button.
- HEAVY -- sure, they ship with pedals. They advertise that you can use them. But I'm downright exhausted after pedaling my electric bike for 100 meters. In short, if you are at risk of running out of battery, use a normal bike instead, which can be recharged by ... eating. I can comfortably go 100 km a day on a normal bike as long as I have food and water available, whereas most electric bikes will cop out at less than 40 km. So ... great for commuting, not great for recreation.
On the plus side, they're super fun to ride, make a commute on a hot day much more pleasant than a bike ride, are super-easy to park in congested cities, help you avoid inhaling large amounts of carbon monoxide on your rush-hour commute, and ideal for getting around large school campuses where you can find charging outlets pretty much anywhere. So I love riding mine, overall. Just pointing out that they aren't totally mature technology just yet.
On my regular bike in the bay area (Berkeley area), I was able to turn 95% of the signals green by stopping right on the sensors (I rode a motorcycle too so I knew where they were). There was 1 signal that I could never change to green with my bicycle and the crosswalk button was reachable from the street. I always rode on the 'smaller' roads for what it's worth.
Personally I don't see much value in electric assist. If I am looking to exercise, I just use my non-electric carbon fiber road bike. And the same amount of exertion translates to a LOT more speed on that road bike than the same amount of exertion assisting a 50-200 pound e-bike. If I'm riding an e-bike, it's usually specifically because I don't want to be exerting myself (e.g. hills, commuting to work, hot days, tired, carrying groceries).
I'd much rather e-bikes just came with insane amounts of battery that rival the range of gas scooters rather than trying to be this weird mish-mash of hey-it's-electric-but-you-still-have-to-pedal-because-we-are-being-cheap-and-only-putting-a-tiny-little-motor-and-inadequate-battery.
No longer true! New laws [0] went into effect at the beginning of this year. There is now such a thing as a Class 3 e-bike that can provide assistance up to 28mph. (I find that's about as fast as I want to go anyway.) When I have to mix it up with cars, the extra speed is a big help.
As for weight, it's really a matter of how much money you want to spend. My e-bike is a converted touring bike, with an EcoSpeed mid-drive, and the weight is very reasonable. I usually bike in to work using leg power (there's a shower at the office) and cruise home with the motor in the evening. There's probably somebody building e-bikes that are also good bicycles; if not, do your own conversion. -- Oh! I just went to the Gigabyke web site. Those aren't e-bikes; those are electric mopeds! Maybe technically they can get away with calling them e-bikes, but they obviously have much heavier frames and wheels. 180 lb, yikes! Okay, I just weighed my bike, and it's 54 lb with battery -- certainly not light by bicycle standards, but entirely tolerable for pedaling.
My bike has a steel frame, so I have no trouble with traffic light sensors. I'm very surprised you do, with 180 lb of metal underneath you!
[0] https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml...
A friend told me to look into Currie-powered bikes: http://www.currietech.com/brands.html. Many of those look promising, though I can't speak directly to riding them.
More bikes is a very good thing, whether human or human/electric powered.
Strava has a E-Bike ride classification, so it would be no different to recording your normal bike ride as a run.
I had a electric bike and regularly recorded by rides on Strava. Comparing it to others doesn't make much sense, but comparing it to yourself and watching your fitness improve is as satisfying as ever.
Top speed on level ground is about 28mph (45 km/h), which is a speed one could easily hit going downhill without a motor, so the bike is well within its intended performance envelope.
I like this setup because it's still easy enough to pedal -- not like a racing bike, of course, but again, well within the amount of weight one might be carrying when touring -- and when I don't feel like pedaling, I don't have to.
I really recommend everyone give one a test ride. For us, it ended up replacing our second car.
I think this is a key point and what many, many people are missing in this thread. Ebikes can seem kinda lame or gimmicky. Then you actually try riding one and they suddenly make a lot more sense.
Like a car, they offer cheap on-demand transit to your exact destination. Unlike a car they do not support long distances, heavy loads or more than 2 people, but often those features are not needed by the urban commuter. Furthermore they lack many of the drawbacks of a car; getting stuck in traffic, the need for parking, the need for insurance, licensing requirements, high fuel requirements etc. Furthermore an e-bike is a signifigantly smaller investment than a car. Having it lost, stolen or damaged poses less of a personal risk to your finances. Unlike a classical bike, e-bike's do not require the user to be in shape or even exert effort to operate. Thus we see that in the personal transport market, e-bikes represent the best of both worlds for the urban commuter. We can see proof by demonstration that in the right conditions they can be enormously popular (China). Why haven't they taken off all over the world yet?
1. Topography. They are generally not powerfull enough to go up steep hills. Sadly this rules out San Fransisco which would otherwise be quick to pick up on an eco-friendly trend.
2. Regulation. These vehicles neither qualify as motorcycles nor bicycles and thus are often ambiguous or de facto illegal in many parts of the states.
3. Weather. Driving at 40 Km/hr in the cold of winter is unpleasant. The otherwise perfect markets of the flat mid-west and dense+flat New York may find this a deal breaker. Sun-belt cities without too much sprawl (Eg San Diego) are the only place in the states that are a perfect match. The Chinese have invented a rather unfashionable "bike apron" to make the cold weather driving tolerable.
I think point 2 is a huge mistake. If the US is serious about green technologies, deregulating e-bikes would be a huge boon.
It was a fantastic experience. Pick up from anywhere, leave anywhere.
Share bikes are getting huge in China, sometimes causing a mess. But the white electric share bikes in Beijing were a fantastic experience and could have a big impact on the cities pollution and transportation issues.
You know what could replace cars for millions of people? A subway. But first we have to work on legalizing high-density urban environments with narrow streets...
To really get somewhere, we have to look a little deeper and ask "where do the majority of people live?"
The populations of large metropolitan areas in the United States:
NYC: 20.2 million LA: 13.1 million Chicago: 9.5 million SF: 4.6 million Seattle: 3.7 million Denver: 2.8 million
According to the last census, 62.7% of Americans live in cities: https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-releases/2015/cb15-33....
Rain? Yeah, that's really no issue. Just dress properly and maybe take a change of clothes. Grocery store trips? Totally doable. I walk to the grocery and carry the stuff back. I did so in the states too - you just don't make huge trips. A lot of commuter bikes have places to carry your basic stuff anyway. Add a backpack and you are generally good. Too cold? Again, dress well most of the time and it isn't much of an issue. Your tolerance for cold grows over time. I'm not sure walking is warmer: On one hand, you move slower but on the other, it takes longer. Some forms of cold do suck, but one deals.
Now, I'd like to agree with you on snow and ice. It seems risky to me - but I'm from Indiana. But they sell studded tires for bikes, and folks ride them in the winter here in town.
I do however find the traditional bicycle, due to its simplicity, reliability, and efficiency, to be one of our best inventions.
I'd love to commute like this except that I live on the west side of Lake Washington and my job is on the east side of it[0]. And I work odd hours. There are exactly two bus route combinations that will get me across the lake: route 545 is a straight shot and route 550+RapidRide B is the one with the transfer. Except that, especially on days with nice weather like today, the bus is unusable when I leave work because all three slots on the bike rack may be filled and Sound Transit / King County Metro has an absolute rule against bringing a non-folding bike onto a bus[1].
I wish I could bike to work, and thus get used to biking more for general stuff. But I can't count on being able to bring my bike back home with me at night so it's walking+buses for me. I suppose I will just wait five years until East Link arrives at Northgate.
0 - Changing jobs or moving house are both non-starters since I've worked where I have for a very long time, almost two decades, and I'm lucky enough to have bought a small house.
1 - Sound Transit and King County both say that bikes are unsafe to carry on bus transit because the bus operates on a road and unexpected things might happen. My rebuttal has always been: OK, so why are bikes allowed on Link south of International District Station? Because, pardon my technicality, the train is also operating in the road. Or why are bikes allowed to be walked onto either streetcar (both of which are operated by King County Metro) since both very much operate in mixed traffic?
It also needs to be operated in many types of weather conditions, like snow, and often needs to cary four passengers or merchandise that takes up the same amount of room. One that isn't vulnerable to theft or stripping.
Also, for the price of a good one, you could get a gas powered moped or 50cc scooter, and watch your range extend dramatically with instant "recharging."
I haven't read the article, and this seems to be the case for tons and tons of these threads.
PM10 are not healthy either.
In the US, diesel cars are rare, and I would guess that the non-diesel cars in the US produce very little in the way of particulate pollution. Am I wrong about that?
Most particulates are from exhaust but amount of this is falling and soon most contributing factor would be brake/tire wear.
(I didn't belabor that point earlier because I assumed that people here would already know that because the VW diesel-emissions cheating scandal was such a big story.)
During a busy commute in a major US metro area, the vast majority of the vehicles on the road are gas-powered (because a large fraction of trucks will avoid busy commutes). I realize the situation is different in Europe where diesel-powered cars are much more common.
Are you nuts? Do you want them to die?
You can see more examples of parents pushing their kids in cargo bikes here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Yy3kXIaKp8
Without electric it can be a real workout, but with electric assist its so much more fun. The kids cry these days if we tell them they need to go into the car.
You can buy a Yuba with Electric from the company, but its 5K which seemed way too much when you can do it yourself for 1/2 the price.
And then, have you thought of what would happen if you were in a car?
In the car, you have a crumple zone.
In the bike, your kids are the crumple zone.
For example, in Massachusetts, eBikes are allowed on bike paths, but not off-road bike trails:
https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXIV/Ch...
Motorized bicycles may be operated on bicycle lanes adjacent to the various ways, but shall be excluded from off-street recreational bicycle paths
But I'm in Tokyo so I'm not worried about theft at all. It has an integrated lock on the back wheel and this blocks the handle too.
If a motor is cheating, then thin tyres, carbon fiber frames and aerodynamic helmets are cheating too. They all reduce the human effort.
Every part of that statement is true except for the word "safely". I first got my driver's license in India, drove motorcycles and cars there, and then moved to the US. Based on my experience, as well as publicly available data, I can state as an objective fact that most drivers in India are terrible. You only have to look at the fatalities per million kilometers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-r... India is approximately 5x worse than the UK, which is near top of the list. Even taking into account the differences in quality of roads and emergency medical services, that's an _enormous_ difference. To a first approximation, any adult bicyclist in India cycles out of necessity (can't afford anything safer) not choice (again, first approximation; I have a retired uncle who cycles 40km every weekend for exercise). Motorbike and moped-riders are a bit of a mixed bag; some people who can't afford a car, others who prefer it for traffic and parking advantages.
Whenever I visit India, it's astonishing to me the number of risks drivers (of cars, 2-wheelers and trucks alike) take with their own and other people's lives for very little gain. The concept of a lane is alien to most drivers, motorbikes speed like crazy and weave in and out of traffic (even I used to do it when I was younger and didn't know any better), no one ever yields to pedestrians, traffic signals don't work or aren't followed unless there's a cop standing there. I could go on and on.
Lest you think I'm a total wuss, I love cycling in the US and it's my preferred mode of transportation for trips under 10 km. I've done plenty of cycling and motorbike riding in India also. But I would not dare ride a 2-wheeler on public roads in India on a consistent basis anymore. At least not until our driver training, licensing, testing, and enforcement regime becomes much stricter than it currently is.