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Comment by helium | Hacker News Reader

More like: "How Tech-Savvy Westerners found a way to satisfy their complete cultural ignorance and inability to accept or understand cultures other than their own"

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Speaking of "complete cultural ignorance", you might want to do a little research into South Africa's long, splendid history of singing at public events, which at the football at least, the vuvuzela has largely destroyed.

No need to do research. I am South African, I live in Johannesburg. I was at a world cup game on Monday (Netherlands vs Denmark at Soccer City). The atmosphere was amazing, partly because of the vuvuzelas. I don't care about the history, they are part and parcel of South African soccer at present, and makes this world cup unique.

Uniquely annoying for all of us watching on TV.

It's possible that live the vuvuzelas are amazing, but on my TV it sounds like a group of angry bees are flying around, probably because the sound is reduced to two channels (left, right). But I must say, in the Netherlands vs Denmark match, the vuvuzelas weren't that awful.

Having been to one game so far, I can confirm that the experience is very different live vs. on-tv.

Then again, I don't find them annoying on tv - so there may be personal bias.

Fair enough :) I did think a while after that my comment may have been rather too blunt. I can certainly accept that the vuvuzelas are part of the modern culture and that to remove them would be to remove the South African flavour from the event.

Just be careful of rashly accusing people of "complete cultural ignorance" when it's a really just a benign matter of people wanting to enjoy the football in the way they're accustomed.

The people who defend the vuvuzela are often the ones with the least awareness of South African soccer traditions. Google "Jon Qwelane ban vuvuzela" to understand the rich history of South African fan traditions before they were drowned out by blaring horns.

Is uniqueness in and of itself a virtue? Or being "part and parcel of x"? Hooliganism used to be part and parcel of the English game; that didn't mean it was a good thing. The blowing of vuvuzelas at football games might have many things to recommend it, but merely being part of current practice is not one of those things.

your argument fails to fulfill its original point - i.e. you haven't successfully argued why uniqueness isn't a virtue.

There certainly are cases where other factors are more important, but I for one value uniqueness - especially when it comes to differentiating one's self on a global scale.

Not so—I'm merely pointing out where the burden of justification lies, not staking out a contrary position. Merely asserting that something is unique doesn't serve to justify the implication that uniqueness is a virtue.

And of course the follow up -- how long does something need to exist before cultural relativism kicks in. 20 years?

Originally made out of tin, the vuvuzela became popular in South Africa in the 1990s. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vuvuzela#Use_outside_football_g...

According to the WP article "This type of plastic horn or trumpet has been used in Mexican stadiums since the 1970s."

I remember them being used at cricket & football matches here in Australia in the 80s, till they were banned for being too annoying, just as they should have been in South Africa before this rot set in.

On the other hand, they ruin the culture of the game; singing, drums, chants, reactions to a goal or a near miss... those are all drowned out. There has to be a compromise that doesn't completely eliminate them but also doesn't ruin the culture of the game.

In South Africa, they are the culture of the game. Different countries, different cultures.

More like a cultural fad...

As a Tech-Savvy Westerner I accept that you guys won't stop blowing your cheap plastic horns and I understand that it's really annoying.

Fortunately there is a difference between "cultural ignorance" and "spoils my enjoyment of the game".

It's not a very "nice" sound (on TV anyway)

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