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Comment by jarboot | Hacker News Reader

The same is happening in Milwaukee. [1]

...and I'm not sure why they're doing stuff like this instead of aiding the ailing north side? We already have buses and could pump money into something much more important. We have much bigger problems than transportation of tourists, shoppers, and whoever is going to spend money at some trendy restaurant.

It seems to me that the people spending time to allocate money to this sort of stuff are out of touch on what they should be allocating money towards. But hey, I'm just a lowly citizen with no experience in local politics.

[1] http://www.themilwaukeestreetcar.com/

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> We have much bigger problems than transportation of tourists, shoppers, and whoever is going to spend money at some trendy restaurant.

If the trendy restaurant people hop on first people from all walks of life will want to follow. But if you start with the needy that will stay your brand forever. Most bus systems are locked in that trap.

I know nothing about Milwaukee (some folks would say "you didn't have to add "about Milwaukee"), but there is a tendency for car-owning Americans to eschew buses even in places, like Boston where I live, because buses are "for poor people". It's a messaging problem.

It's not entirely a messaging problem; long bus trips are a great way to catch diseases from poor people who are traveling sick.

Eh. People in NYC are willing to ride on subways with poor people.

For me it's more a matter of never living in a city where buses are both

(1) reliable -- the time the schedule says the bus is arriving, is when it arrives, and

(2) frequent enough that I don't have to plan my day around the bus schedule.

Maybe a place exists where both are true, but I've never seen it.

I think trains/subways aren't as much of a concern for most people. On a bus, it's not uncommon to end up with a stinky or fairly creepy person stuck next to you with nothing you can do. Trains make it easier to get up and walk away, even moving to another car if you want to.

In New York City, it is illegal to move between subway cars, by using the end doors.

Here in Japan it's perfectly alright, so it varies from place to place. I know the one time I went to New York I saw a guy passing through into other cars, but he didn't seem to be the type to care about the law.

I haven't spent much time in NYC but I had never seen people go through the doors as passengers until then. It seemed to be frequent/common too. I've since seen this once in another city and it was pretty clear that it was out-of-the-ordinary when it happened.

I think part of the issue is that in areas where there's not super abundant public transit that the majority of the population uses instead of cars, the likelihood of having a negative encounter with the type of people that are so unpleasant that you'd normally do anything possible to avoid them goes up significantly. My personal anecdote: when I lived in DC I never had any problems with the Metro buses or trains even in the poorer areas. When I lived in a coastal county in the panhandle of Florida I would sometimes take a bus on one of the very few lines that existed, serviced exclusively by very small buses and only a few times a day. During one of my trips I had to step in to stop this older man in his late 30's from physically harassing underage girls which led to police involvement. Turns out that he had been a problem for the bus line for a while but they couldn't ban him from the system because he was threatening to involve some civil liberties group in a discrimination case. I stopped taking the bus after that.

Yes this is unfortunately a problem everywhere, and I've seen this situation sometimes in Austin, Texas. In addition to untoward incidents like you mention, there are often homeless people taking the bus in the summers, I beleive simply to get a respite from the heat in the air conditioned buses. And while this might sound incredibly elitist, their stench is so bad I would frequently have to try for another bus.

Projects like this are test cases for the viability of these projects. It's probably a good idea to build where the demand is to show that people will actually catch these things then move on to areas where demand is not a certainty.

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