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Comment by octygen | Hacker News Reader

As my psychotherapist put it yesterday: people that seek self-esteem in an unhealthy way are vampires. "You have to become your own bloodsource" she said.

When you seek self-esteem in an unhealthy way, you do things to get approval/validation from others. You'll suck some blood from girls who like you, suck some blood from jobs you apply for that want you, tell friends about all the high-end interviews you have and the cool things you're doing. But after you've gotten what you need from the girls, the jobs, the friends, you realize you never really wanted any of them. And that you wasted your time in the process when you should seek what YOUR OWN PATH is. Self-compassion/kindness is when you become your own sustainable bloodsource of self-esteem and it is critical for your survival and success.

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No disrespect intended, but this is so American someone should use it as an academic linguistics example of culture-specific communication!

(eg. psychotherapy, negative third party social group stereotyping, pop culture references, second person framing of self-help advice as casual banter, capitalia, shameless and fundamentally American reformation of compassion in an ego-linked context...)

Can you explain what your comment means?

No disrespect intended

Please don't take this the wrong way.

this is so American

I felt that the commenter was expressing themselves in a way that was particularly unique to Americans.

someone should use it as an academic linguistics example of culture-specific communication!

I believe the example is of such a high quality that it would be useful in an academic context (ie. college/university courses) as an example of communications made within one culture that are unique to that culture versus other cultures speaking the very same language, ie. people born in Scotland or New Zealand would generally never communicate in this way.

The examples list arguably American cultural traits present in the paragraph.

(Edit to explain points: 'psychotherapy' = more prevalent in US culture, 'negative third party social group stereotyping' = ~all those people are <negative-something>, 'pop culture references' = vampires, 'second person framing of self-help advice as casual banter' = grammatical form where "you gotta X", or "you should Y", or "when you X you Y!", 'capitalia' = THIS BIT IS GRATING, 'reformation of compassion in an ego-linked context' = compassion for self, which is fundamentally juxtaposed to traditional not-self usage as linked to eastern meditative traditions (vipassana, etc.) and where increased egocentrism is widely considered a quintessentially American cultural trait).

You explained all the obvious parts. Now explain what everything in that list means.

Thank you, the edit provided what we were looking for beforehand.

Except for perhaps psychotherapy^, there's nothing there that would be out of place if someone said it, say, in Russian (I can translate, if you wish).

In particular, there's about 140,000 hits for "emotional vampirism" when you Google it in Russian (pop culture, eh?).

Same thing about writing in ALL CAPS: http://lurkmore.to/CAPSLOCK

May I ask you, which many languages, besides English, do you browse the Internet in? I am curious about your the basis for comparison.

^People are becoming more open about seeing a therapist (психолог), but it's something out of reach of most people.

Don't forget referring to adult women as girls!

And kudos to you for using "women" instead of "female".

This is confusing me. What is the current PC way to address the non-male gender?

That's a very heterogeneous group you are addressing. Why are you grouping by a binary gender? What is it you think individuals in this group have in common?

> What is it you think individuals in this group have in common?

Penises and vaginas. Since those with ambiguous genitalia are a rounding error, they can flip a coin.

The key (reproducing_organ) only has 2 (or 3) values. If you want a composite key (reproducing_organ, sexual_preference, sexual_identification), you would get (at most) 3 * 3 * 2 (?) possible values. If you want to expand that key to include X because PC reasons, I'm not listening anymore.

Are you serious?

PCs can address at least 8-bit segments (bytes). Current transfer minimum is probably 64-bit for uncached writes.

Why is that deserving of kudos?

Infantilization is a broader problem, actually. Overseas soldiers are typically "boys" (whether male or not). Teenagers accused of violent felonies are often "kids" whose grades are suddenly relevant.

To make this easier for an American to understand, I used Google Translate to convert the comment to French, and then back to English. I think it's helpful.

No disrespect, but it's so American that someone should use it as an academic linguistic example of culture-specific communication! (Eg, psychotherapy, negative social groups of social groups, pop culture referrals, second-person counseling as casual jokes, capitalia, shameless and fundamentally American reform of compassion in a context Linked to the ego ...)

This is such ethnocentrism smacking bullshit. It's unfounded stereotyping of a country that's I'm going to guess is more culturally, ethnically, and ideologically diverse than you are used to.

For starters, I didn't notice any citations in your claims of academic relevance. Have you read papers from reputable institutions that support your positions as their central thrust (rather than a side note or speculation)? If so please cite one and let us know how many of your points are part of its central argument.

Taking it down a notch from academia, even the Wikipedia article on American stereotypes does agree with your list. Too many biased Americans on WP? Even anecdotally in countries I've lived and stayed in, many people were happy to share their American stereotypes and I enjoyed the discussions, but they never mentioned your list.

Some of the things I'm used to hearing: Americans are fat? Not a pleasant thing to hear but objectively true. Americans are gun crazy? Not everyone but still, there is solid foundation here. So this is not a matter of (just) being insulted, I simply call into question your ability to back up your specific claims with sound evidence and data.

Finally your claim that self compassion is "fundamentally juxtaposed" to eastern meditative traditions is incorrect (I assume you meant to write opposed). On the contrary, it is vital component of some practices and one of the first things studied (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mettā#Mett.C4.81_meditation).

With everything happening in the US right now the last thing we need is people making false assumptions that all of us support the same leadership, same homogeneous viewpoints, same personal failings, etc.

First, ethnocentrism would require an ethnic group as the subject.

Second, I prefaced to ensure this was taken as tongue in cheek as intended. Clearly you missed that part.

Third, having spent many years researching Buddhism we must agree to disagree regarding your suggestion that self-targeted compassion and Pali metta[0] are similar.

Finally, a passing generalization is clearly not the same as viewing everyone as identical.

[0] http://www.accesstoinsight.org/index-subject.html#metta

>ethnocentrism would require an ethnic group as the subject.

Incorrect. "ethnocentrism: evaluation of other cultures according to preconceptions originating in the standards and customs of one's own culture"

>I prefaced to ensure this was taken as tongue in cheek as intended. Clearly you missed that part.

I didn't miss it. Writers get to imply as they like. Readers are free to infer as they like. That's how it works.

>Having spent many years researching Buddhism we must agree to disagree regarding your suggestion that self-targeted compassion and Pali metta.

I'm sorry, this is just completely untrue.

1) From your own sources: "Right at the start loving-kindness should be developed towards oneself."

2) From my source: "[In] practices that focus on compassion...the practitioner is targeting oneself"

3) Choose any master you like who has written on metta/lovingkindnessand and compassion. By long tradition the start of the path is self compassion.

>a passing generalization is clearly not the same as viewing everyone as identical.

I hope not. The problem with generalizations and false stereotypes is they tend to encourage that sort of thinking.

Yeah this is nonsense. Psychotherapy originated in Austria and evolved in Europe. Vampires have a long folk and literary tradition and are not necessarily a pop-culture reference. Shouting (all-caps) is not unique to Americans, and to imply it is is nationalistic prejudice. You definitely intended disrespect. If you didn't you are exhibiting a disturbing lack of awareness of the consequences of your speech. How's that for second person framing?

You're American, huh, contingencies?

I don't know what's going on here, but I think you should start bringing garlic to your sessions, just in case.

GP's post reminds me that I fail to understand how people can come out and say they want their kids to be in tech like them. Just go through a few article titles: death, loneliness, diseases, therapy, antidepressants, OCD... Do you really want to put your kid in an environment like this, deny him the chance of enjoying life like a normal person?

Is this stuff less prevalent in other fields? In tech, you never realistically need to worry about money or losing your job (as it is so easy to find another) - most people don't have this comfort. IMO tech is an excellent career. Just don't become a big spender so that you have to work till your sixties.

It is more prevalent. People in tech also work long hours, have "side projects" aka somewhat expected unpaid work, are unhealthy, seem to not exercise, play video games too much, watch too much tv...

the list goes on

Is it more prevalent because we have hard data showing it is, or do we think it is more prevalent because we typically speak with more people in tech because we're in tech and have more experience with them?

I am now a few years post-divorce and in a relationship with a wonderful future wife v2.0, and I will be the first to tell you that my perspective on others', careers, and behavior patterns has changed significantly because I'm exposed to a very different slice of American culture than I was with wife v1.0. You'll find similarities where you didn't expect to find them. The same is true of differences.

Congratulations on the new release!

I'm looking at data from the UK. Computer Programmers seem to be on the upper end of skilled, non-managerial labor.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3034883/table/T...

Still lower than a lot of other professions. I do wonder how the difference in work-culture affects the data though. I have talked to programmers in the UK who say that the environment is completely different -- 35-40 hour weeks rather than the churn and burn that you see at a lot of businesses here.

All my (UK) programming gigs have been 37.5 hours and I'e never had to work overtime. Generally it's optional at a higher rate of pay.

Mabey this is more an American problem? I live in Sweden and developer jobs here are fairly low pressure, high pay and everything else the rest of the industry has: 1 year maternity leave, 6 week paid vacation etc. I would definitely recommend it to anyone!

"In tech, you never realistically need to worry about money or losing your job (as it is so easy to find another) - most people don't have this comfort."

This is a misconception. If you work in a cost-centre (biz speak for not making direct dollars) your task maybe cut. I've seen whole divisions in corporations cut when savings were required. Startups are notoriously flakey for employment for reasons other than direct failure. If you work in an area with measurable sales (product) you may make a lot of money.

Tech at the moment reminds me of Rock music in the 70's. Lots of cash splashing about, deals done, people making money in making music. If there is a re-adjustment due to technology, for example the move to coughDigital/CDscough in the 80's using our music analogy?

The only normal people are the ones you don't know very well.

Because they don't want them to have less than $500 in their savings account, like a normal person.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/01/12/pf/americans-lack-of-savings...

That is crazy! I had no idea about this. Also taking into account that America has next to no social safety nets it's really crazy.

Different perspectives, I suppose, but I recommend programming to anyone who has a head for it. Admittedly, perhaps the culture is different away from the big tech hubs or startup culture or what have you. I've only been working in the field a few years in two positions, but both were fairly low-pressure positions with 40-hour workweeks, a few weeks of paid time off, and reasonable but not amazing pay. For reference, I've done ERP development at a CD manufacturer in Pennsauken, NJ, and air traffic software development for the FAA near Atlantic City, NJ.

Seems to me like there are plenty of jobs for people to get into tech and make a decent living, if they prioritize for their happiness rather than compensation or doing something 'cool'.

Do alot of parents try to decide what their kids should be doing with their lives when they become grown ups? That in itself sounds like a reason the kids will end up in therapy.

Or maybe just rephrase the self esteem thing. The innate desire to fit some imaginary view, feeling not good enough until X happens, or Y likes you. <= What is the source of that emotion, that silent fear that make you run after ghosts.

I'm still a bit like that, very often I did things for wrong reasons, validation. My brain was very efficient and very pleasuring when seeking mental complexity, appearing smart; but socially inept to interact emotionnaly with people in sane honest ways.

A fun problem.

I've seen that theme in music before

> The Mountain Goats - Damn These Vampires

> Bright Eyes - Devil Town

Also see:

> Atreyu - The Crimson

The song Devil Town was written by Daniel Johnston, whose work you might enjoy. Bright Eyes certainly did a solid version of it!

Devil Town is indeed a fine piece of American Music par-excellence. But, I wouldn't read metaphor into it. I believe Johnston was talking about actual vampires living in Devil Town. Johnston suffers from some mental imbalances, and is also very religious. Devil Town would literally be where the Devil would be living. If there's a metaphor, he is talking about living in a world of sin, brought on be people who have been enchanted by the Devil.

But anyways, amazing song, AMAZING artist - one of my favorites.

And yes, love yourself.

In many ways this "theory"/theme corresponds to the behaviour observed in clinical narcissism. It's generally not healthy, though, IMO, to think with the vampire metaphor.

> Self-compassion/kindness is when you become your own sustainable bloodsource of self-esteem and it is critical for your survival and success.

I think this is the opposite of what the article was saying. The article says that instead of looking for "self-esteem" from your successes (and avoiding failures), you should stop chasing self-esteem altogether, and instead choose self-compassion.

> it is critical for your survival and success

I think the article is trying to say "It's okay not to succeed, go easy on yourself."

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