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Comment by odonnellryan | Hacker News Reader

I wonder, why go this route instead of creating a device to add to your TV?

My echo is right next to the TV.

They actually already have that. The Fire TV Stick has "Alexa" in it, but you have to use the push-to-talk remote instead of having an always-on mic as in the Echo.

Won't be long until TV's are internet connected microphones too.

You mean like this very real hack? https://www.theverge.com/2017/4/25/15421326/smart-tv-hacking...

It would be nice not to need a remote, like with Kinect but with better mics and voice recognition

Part of the problem with that is that if the TV isn't on the right input then you won't be able to receive the response. HDMI Control to change the input exists, but with false positives it might be a bad thing still because it would interrupt whatever you're doing to listen and go "i couldn't understand the question i was asked". I'd quickly disable it if it was doing that.

I power my chromecast directly and it uses HDMI-CEC to automatically turn on the TV. It works pretty well.

My guess is the TV market is different than the market they're going after, which kinds of seems like a "digital assistant" kind of market.

Presumably, they could come out with an Amazon Echo-fied TV sometime in the future though, but their priority of device releases seems careful and calculated.

Amazon Echo first, to see if there's even any market for digital assistants.

Amazon Echo Dot next, to extend their reach in the house.

Amazon Echo Look and Show third and fourth, released at roughly the same time, to extend their reach into some of people's everyday behaviors.

I imagine they have a roadmap that is aligned to other everyday behaviors and prioritized against what is easier to aid with a AI-powered digital assistant. Changing behaviors are never easy, so presumably, they are targeting ones that are less habitualized, under-served, or not currently served at all.

With that theory in mind, TV is already a well-served need, so it wouldn't be a high priority to Amazon Echo-fy just yet.

Because this way the screen can turn on and off dynamically.

Also, it doesn't tie you to having to have a TV in a location you want one.

HDMI-CEC allows similar on most modern TVs.

As for not being tied to where you have a TV, for $200 you can buy a 40"+ 1080p TV, for $100 you can have a really nice IPS 22" 1080p monitor. Probably better than this tiny thing.

Would you put that TV on your kitchen counter? Sometimes you don't need a 22” screen.

Yeah. I have no place in my kitchen to reasonably put a large monitor. That said, I wouldnt be at surprised to see a future version of this as a box or a fire stick like thing to plug into an existing tv.

The moment you tell people "for this to work you have to go buy something else separately," you lose a huge chunk of potential sales. People don't want to do the work of figuring out what specific model of something else they need, where they have to go to get it, etc. Even if you put the something else on the shelf right next to your thing, the added cognitive load will turn lots of people off.

Build the other thing in to your thing, and all those problems go away.

Did you click through and see the offers to bundle security cameras and other IOT products?

That's different. Those are additional functionality not a requirement to use the core functionality of the device.

Yeah, I have no problem with that in theory, just don't make a crappy overpriced version of the other thing...

Leaving aside interoperability fun and the user experience that /u/smacktoward refers to, TVs don't always switch on very quickly.

My TV takes a good 10 seconds to start producing audio after the google chromecast 'on' command. Putting the screen in themselves gives them control of that experience.

Netflix is taking care of that for you.

> When you see the Netflix Recommended TV logo, you’ll know the TV has passed a rigorous evaluation process.

> TV Instant On

> Your TV starts up instantly and apps are ready to use right away, just like your smartphone.

https://devices.netflix.com/en/recommendedtv/2017/

The instant on feature is generally just a standby mode, which can consume a fairly substantial amount of power.

I've also found that disabling the 'instant on' feature of my TV makes it perform much better. When I used the standby mode, apps would occasionally crash or stop responding after a few hours. The only way to get them to work again was to unplug the TV.

I never have to unplug the TV now that I've disabled instant on.

That being said, I own a Samsung TV, which has the worst software of any TV I've used, except for Philips, which was worse only because the TV I owned didn't support SSH keys longer than 48-bits or something really stupid like that.

Ideally I'd be able to purchase a non-smart TV that turned on instantly, but I don't see that happening any time soon.

TV manufacturers seem to be really averse to just making an awesome display. They have to value add features that open security holes and are so poorly maintained that in a couple years you'll need to buy a new TV.

Not to mention they add all those useless post-processing effects that increase latency to the point where it's almost impossible to play games on them.

I don't understand why a signal coming in through HDMI signal has 9 milliseconds of lag on my cheap monitor, and 46 seconds on my fairly nice tv. In gaming mode the tv has something like 35 ms of lag.

I've seen TVs that have enough input lag that you get noticeable audio sync issues if you use an external audio system. That's ridiculous.

AFAIK most TVs have a "Game" picture mode that will disable post-processing.

Some post-processing but not all. Most TVs are ill suited for Gaming which is ironic since the gaming industry thrives in front of the TV.

>so poorly maintained that in a couple years you'll need to buy a new TV.

I think they consider that a feature. For the record, I absolutely agree as a consumer that TVs just need to be awesome display panels with a recent remote and sufficient inputs. But I understand why the manufacturers may not want to buy into that.

When money is no object, you have to get a commercial display (like this [0], w/ 55" class (54.6" diagonal) Edge-Lit LED IPS Digital - $1350MSRP). Otherwise, something like a Vizio P series (which has an embedded chromecast) is good if you turn-off the wifi radio and/or never give it your AP's credentials.

I grew up with a TV that would immediately turn-on when you pressed the button (you could even hear an audible sound from the TV set), and the cable TV remote (it was separate in the 80s too) could change channels at 4-5 per second (this is when channels surfing was born because they would render so fast).

Vizio has a line of OTA-free displays, but they still have a Linux kernel. This is a good start, but going back to whatever RTOS they use to have would be better.

[0]http://www.lg.com/us/business/commercial-display/displays-tv...

I have one of the last Panasonic Plasmas. Actually two of them in different sizes. I'd be hard pressed to justify replacing while they still work. Though an LG OLED did turn my head a bit when I walked into a Best Buy last month.

"Let me just put this 40 inch TV on my kitchen counter...".

HDMI-CEC is nice on paper, but seems to be a mess in most cases.

My TV supports it and fails randomly to wake up, googling it at the time, a flurry of other TVs models were mentionned as not working properly. I think there was a ATP episode on the topic, with the same conclusion: it works sometimes, if you're lucky.

Hmmm, Google Home already turns Android TVs on and off on the fly. (or TVs with Chromecasts plugged into a modern HDMI-CEC slot). Or push info to the discovery tab of the Home app. I suppose there is some value in putting an ugly (IMO) 7" screen in specific locations where you don't have or want a TV, like a kitchen, but it seems rather niche.

Locate remote, Turn on TV, select EXT3 input....

Modern HDMI-based systems can do this in one stroke. And by "modern" I mean that pushing my PS3 (yes, 3, not 4) button to start it up starts up my TV, and would start up my audio system were it not too old for that. (Though it occurs to me now to check whether it might do that if I routed HDMI in to it; for historical reasons I route optical audio to it which I believe lacks the channel for this.)

Shutting things back down seems to be a bit more challenging, though. The TV recognizes the PS3 turning off and returns to live TV (the last thing I really want it to switch to, but whatever), but the whole system teardown is a bit more complicated.

On my PS3 this worked 100% of the time, one third of the time. I suppose that for this sort of application you really need it to be 100% reliable.

Doesn't the FireTV/Stick do full-on Alexa now?

Yes - though it's not listening and you need the voice remote to be in your hand and/or you need to spin up the app on your phone. While that doesn't sound like a barrier to much, it definitely has been for me asking for simple things especially from across the room. Voice interfaces are good for hands-free action, which FireTV doesn't really allow.

As someone who owns both an Echo and a Fire TV Stick, I found it initially surprising that the Echo couldn't control things on the TV. I also found it surprising that the same APIs returning voice responses had been returning data about things to display on a screen the whole time.

This seems like an obvious product for those who completely buy into the Alexa ecosystem.

Yeah. I really meant Alexa being able to control my TV.

It does.

I don't think this is the same usecase, and the person above suggesting it could be used for Netflix is a bit ridiculous to me. I see it more for watching a quick instructional Youtube videos (as we all know there's a How To for everything on Youtube). It's also something small and easy to have around the house for quick video calls.

For watching anything long and serious, I would definitely send it to my TV.

It's not too expensive and it can make calls, plays music, and hopefully can show recipes or TV shows. It sounds like exactly what I would want for my kitchen.

Not everyone has or wants a TV.

Who doesn't have a TV or at least a laptop?

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