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Comment by andreiursan | Hacker News Reader

Europe was more expensive a couple of years ago. Now is much cheaper, just pick equivalent cities and compare them on Numbeo.

e.g. Hamburg vs Seattle https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?cou...

The past years I used to travel each year to US, in different parts (Dallas, Chicago, Seattle etc...) and I always had the impression that USA is way more expensive - from the perspective of someone who goes to a restaurant and enjoys good food and a good bottle of wine.

Also health insurance is cheaper here, and my coverage is very good.

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US big cities are expensive, but there are plenty of places in the US that you haven't visited that are quite affordable to live in. You can't judge the whole US by NY, LA, and Chicago.

But aren't many of the inexpensive areas those that are dying due to deindustrialization? Those areas that gave rise to Trump?

Many cities in the Midwest are growing and fairly cheap. I was talking to someone from Des Moines and their rent was really low compared to larger or coastal cities

Des Moines is great. Cheap, good jobs, big enough to get decent concerts/theater tours, and small enough to feel a sense of community. Only downside is ~1-2 months of brutal weather in the winter.

In response to the parent comment, the reason it's largely escaped these effects is that the economy is anchored in insurance and financial services rather than manufacturing.

There's also a big ag-tech sector and growing bio-tech industry if you include Ames which is a university town about 30 miles North.

^^^ No, the big coastal cities are outliers in America. Most Americans do not live near one of the big expensive cities.

Growing, thriving cities like Houston, Dallas, San Antonio, Atlanta, Charlotte, Phoenix, Minneapolis, etc. are all relatively inexpensive. As are numerous smaller cities like Nashville, Orlando, Salt Lake City, Jacksonville, etc.

The median price to purchase a home in America is ~$240k IIRC, hardly expensive.

Thanks!

> there are plenty of places in the US that you haven't visited that are quite affordable to live in.

Sure, but almost none are nearly as affordable as the parent poster's example.

"Hamburg - Apartment, 1 Bedroom, City Centre - $823/month"

I'm in the so-called "affordable" Midwest, and there's not a single apartment even remotely close to that price, in any city anywhere within 400 miles here. In Michigan, for example, that same apartment will cost at least $1,200/month. This is true despite the fact that our average income is roughly identical to what Numbeo lists for Hamburg.

There's cheaper places like Wichita, KS but they don't have many good paying jobs which keeps many of the nicer townhomes and larger apartments in good neighborhoods out of reach unless you work aircraft. It's a weird situation that basically we got plenty of housing here but none of it is accessible to the average citizen at a cost effective price.

Wichita is an order of magnitude smaller and more provincial than Hamburg though - even the Kansas City metro is.

The right comparison for Wichita is an equally provincial mid-sized town in Germany, say Halle an der Saale. And I'd wager rents get quite similar again, if not cheaper in Germany...

It should also be mentioned, that Hamburg is very expensive.

1 City centre bedroom + utilities $1120

The same in Kiel (pop 240k) $810

Dresden (pop 540k): $770

I'd assume only Berlin and Munich will have prices like Hamburg

>I'm in the so-called "affordable" Midwest, and there's not a single apartment even remotely close to that price [$823], in any city anywhere within 400 miles here.

I am in the definitely unaffordable Bay Area, and you don't have to go 400 miles to rent a 1 bd apt for under $800. Its not going to be in a desirable city and probably not a very nice apt, but they certainly exist. Literally the first listing I found on craigslist was $775 (in Modesto, about an 80 mile drive to San Jose).

> Its not going to be in a desirable city and probably not a very nice apt,

That's what the comparison is though, it's using "city center" apartments, apartments inside urban areas. Of which, there aren't any anywhere near that price, in almost any city in the US. (Even somewhere like Detroit).

If you want to look at crappy apartments way outside of town, the comparison still holds up:

> Dresden - Apartment (1 bedroom) Outside of Centre - $392/month USD

That "affordable" Modesto apartment is still about 2X the cost of a comparable unit.

And likely has proper public transport (very lacking in the US) so you might be able to reduce your gas bill.

Most affordability indexes only focus on housing costs. When adding in transportation, most places in the US become very expensive (relative to local income): http://htaindex.cnt.org

Should also consider cost of healthcare.

Health insurance and healthcare in some areas, specifically rural or remote, is extremely expensive and noncompetitive. Just like ISPs, some areas just have ONE insurer!

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