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Comment by mikestew | Hacker News Reader

I was waiting for the part where they explain that the water is so clear because of invasive non-native mussels that have pretty much taken over. In other words the lake isn't clear because it's clean, it's clear because it's dead.

So when new EPA regulations kick in that allow ships to now dump their bilge and ballast liquids anywhere they like, expect to get more of this.

(Best link I can find for a quick search: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2672/what-is-the-ze...)

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You're talking about the zebra mussel. I'm good friends with a bunch of very dedicated folks who are employed to protect the lakes (the Great Lakes that is). The zebra mussel was a terrible invasive species but isn't nearly as terrible as some of the other new options-for example Asian carp. We've managed to claw back some funding for the Great Lakes in the most recent round of budget cuts but it's not nearly enough. Something that needs to be addressed is Chicago and it's complete refusal to sever its waterways from the Great Lakes-through Chicago we have a straight line to the Mississippi and from there to the gulf and god knows what coming in. Just one more example of Chicago ruining things in Michigan.

I spent some of my youth on a lake absolutely overrun with zebra mussels. You couldn't even see any sand, just shells. It sucked.

Nearly 15 years later, they're all gone. I don't know why. No one on the lake needs to use water shoes and the beaches are beautiful.

I understand that zebra mussels suck and are terrible for the great lakes, but do we understand the long term repurcussions?

Nope. We know they're invasive and that they upset the balance the Lakes are used to. We have to assume that's not great but we're all just trying to do what we can to not upset the Apple cart.

I'm guessing the zebra mussels died as their food source became less common. I was a bio major, and there's a name for the population collapse that happens when a species gets access to a new food source, grows quickly, and then collapses, but I forgot what it is.

I'll have to look at my population dynamics book later to see if I can remember.

Overshoot and collapse, most likely.

Bingo. I couldn't remember overshoot for the life of me.

Pardon me. I am clueless about Biology.

By collapse, you mean all dead & extinct in the lake? As in, there is 0% chance of them returning from the dead like the eggs that are laid which is start growing once there is new food source?

If the zebra mussel are all dead, would it be possible to transplant a family of fish from some other lake, so they can start a life in Lake Michigan and bring it back to life?

I caught about 20, ~8lbs. lake trout on Lake Michigan last summer. The lake is not literally dead.

For the last 3 summers, my family and I have gone salmon fishing with a charter company [1] in Lake Michigan near Algoma, WI. Each year we've caught ~15-20 fish. From my limited experience I have to agree with you.

[1]: http://kinnskatch.com/

I think the name is western civilization

>Just one more example of Chicago ruining things in Michigan.

Generally speaking, single large population centers are really good at screwing the entire area around them. California has SoCal. NY has NYC, MA has Boston, VA has DC and so on.

Other than the Tijuana runoff and construction (tough to have cities without construction), what have SoCal cities done that negatively impact the environment? Some people seem genuinely grumpy that there are so many dolphins, seals, coyotes, and mountain lions. If the apex predator are intact, I am inclined to think the underlying ecosystem is fairly stable. You apparently disagree. Why?

Los Angeles literally drank Owens Lake.

I would put that under "construction". Admittedly, construction of water pipes and pumping stations, but loss of habitat to basic requirements of human existence tend to support, you know, human life.

Nearly wiped out Mono Lake. If you go there these days, you'll see that conservation efforts are bringing it back very slowly.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Water_Wars

I'm pretty close to Lake Erie, the sewer drain of the other Great Lakes. Invasive species are pretty bad here too. But the agricultural runoff and season algae blooms have been the most recent headache in the western portion of the lake.

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