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Comment by jscheel | Hacker News Reader

Wow, that's amazing that they were so willing to try and help others. However, reading this 7 days before I take my 4 year old and twin 1 year olds to Italy was not the best timing on my part.

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Don't be scared: homicide and crime rates in Italy are very low, especially if compared to the United States (assuming that's where you're coming from).

The problem with the Mafias is not so much the killings, but the impoverishment and corrosion of everything they control.

The article doesn't portray a realistic view of crime rates in Italy - they say "violent death is commonplace", but I don't think that's ever been true, and it certainly isn't now.

Be careful, as always, but Italy isn't an especially dangerous place. Some regions have higher crime rates than others, but even then, I wouldn't worry too much about it.

> they say "violent death is commonplace", but I don't think that's ever been true

The Greens happened to be in a bad place at a very bad time - late-80s/early-90s saw big changes in organized crime and political structures, with all the trouble that sourt of situation will inevitably bring. Things are nowhere as tense today. Unless you specifically head for the ghetto, the worst that can happen as a tourist is overpaying for taxis.

Most of the killings in Italy happen in the context of organized crime, and they almost never make erorrs, this was a very odd situation. In general Italy is a very safe place if compared to London or most parts of the US.

Most parts of the US are just as safe. Just stay away from urban crime zones.

Yep, that's what I mean, in 99% of italian cities, it is impossible for you to get lost, go around at random, and reach an "unsafe place".

I've been there many times, its amazing. Have a safe trip buddy.

Just stay (sadly) away from Sicilia, Campania, Calabria, Puglia.

Edit to avoid misinterpretation and backlash: those are the 4 regions (out of 20) where the Mafias (Cosa Nostra, 'Ndrangheta, Camorra, Sacra Corona Unita) kill the most.

If he comes from anywhere other than the EU (and even then, depends where), Italy, or even Sicily in particular, is much safer regarding murder rates. Italy is super safe. If you or him wants more details, numbers etc ... They're all readily available, but even a quick glance at these two maps tells the story:

World by country level: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Map_of_w... (Yes, Italy is safer than Canada or Australia)

Europe by regional level: https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/europe...

So yes, even in the few parts of Italy that aren't scoring perfect, the murder rate is as dangerous as visiting the french south east coast, or visiting Scotland, or even north Germany. Not exactly hell of earth.

You are still much more likely to die in a traffic accident in these regions than get murdered. By most standards (even Western European ones) these regions are still very safe, so I don't see any reasons why you should avoid them. Furthermore, Italian mafia, unlike some movies like you to believe, usually don't kill for fun - most of the related murders are targeted killings of rivals, witnesses, debtors, investigators etc.

O nenni, laghe sono italiano

The mafia, even if it is as once was, does not target "civilians." You have a much greater chance of being slashed by a 14 yo gang-member in USA

Worth noting is that, although the USA does have a crime epidemic, the typical murder doesn't take the form of random shooting or a mugging gone wrong. Think young men who already know each other shooting each other.

Do we really have "a crime epidemic"? These data don't show that [1].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_the_United_States

Of course we don't, it's just perpetuated by the media. Every single incident is blasted into our faces, until we're all living in fear of everything.

How many murders is a reasonable amount?

Yeah, they only target each other or rebellious shop-keepers and while targeting those targets they shoot in broad daylight on the streets, in shops, and so on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Falcone#Death

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Via_D%27Amelio_bombing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santo_Di_Matteo#Killing_of_son

Killing police officers, wives of judges, priests who speak up agains the Mafia, torturing the 11-year old son of a pentito for two years... Charming. This romanticized view really does make me angry. The Mafia are scum, they are lowlife despicable murderers. They're unreservedly wretchedly scum. They haven't a a moral code, they bring misery to others for their own benefit, and as such they aren't above any other scumbag criminal (like the 14-yo gangbanger you deride).

The Mafia are scum, they are lowlife despicable murderers. They're unreservedly wretchedly scum. I agree. You should post this to the person that praised them.

The post I replied suggested that Italy is not safe because of Mafia. Yeah, Salvatore Riina did go into terror to force the state to settle some 20+ years ago, but how many people not related to their business were killed vs mafiosi? Things happen. People fall out of their beds too. USA and other countries have their own problems.

My point was that Italy is to be considered dangerous for tourists because of the mafia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention...

Oh, absolutely, I agree on that point.

Do you happen to know the chances of "being slashed by a 14 yo gang-member in USA", or did you just invent an example?

https://www.google.com/search?q=slashed+subway+initiation+ga...

Hey, I wrote "where the Mafias kill the most". The most.

I honestly think all the replies miss my point.

Oahu is the place in Hawaii where coconuts kill the most. Just stay (sadly) away from Oahu.

Or maybe you can take your chances.

That's a perfectly legit reply to someone who just expressed concerns for their kids over accidental killing by coconuts in Hawaii.

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