Qualcomm Report on LTE for Drones | Hacker News Reader

Qualcomm Report on LTE for Drones

skydrone.aero

56 pointsSkyDrone37 comments

I hope the next revision of MAVLink (one of the most common message serialization/transport protocols used for UAVs) will have built-in encryption.

While systems can encrypt MAVLink messages in transit, I have not seen it actually done- everyone is relying on security of the physical layer (i.e. obscurity of telemetry radio frequency hopping/channel negotiation, WiFi security).

So in most implementations, MAVLink messages are actually transmitted in plaintext, over plain TCP/UDP connections.

In our product "Sky Drone FPV" we encrypt the MAVLink channel via DTLS.

Cool, kudos for taking a responsible approach!

I understand it might be a trade secret, but what LTE modem do you use on receiver side? I would like to use LTE more, but finding suitable modems for embedded uses has been a challenge.

True, LTE modem protocols are a bit of a mess. You can get a good overview here: https://aleksander.es/data/FOSDEM2013%20-%20Mobile%20broadba...

We're working on this at CryptoMove: https://www.dhs.gov/science-and-technology/news/2017/03/29/n...

Many of these systems are using the amateur radio service bands. Often 5GHz for video, 2.3-2.4GHz for control and telemetry and less frequently 1.2GHz, 900MHz and 70cm are also used. The FCC doesn't allow encrypted traffic on amateur bands except for specific cases such as satellite telecommand. I suppose that has discouraged adoption of cryptography.

What are commercial operators doing? Another limitation of Amateur bands is that they can't be used for commercial purposes, so licensed commercial drone operators must be using commercial bands where cryptography is permitted. Don't know myself; haven't looked into it.

> Another limitation of Amateur bands is that they can't be used for commercial purposes, so licensed commercial drone operators must be using commercial bands where cryptography is permitted.

I don't think so. I think we can agree that many, many commercial operators use DJI. There are also lots of amateurs using DJI. Both use the same firmware. There is no option for me to encrypt or unencrypt my Phantom which I could easily use commercially if I had my FAA Part 107.

I see. So they're operating in the ISM portion of 2.4 and 5GHz. In that case they can encrypt. So the original question seems a good one; why haven't they yet?

My understanding is that there is an exemption in amateur radio for model aircraft control signals that allows encryption [1].

[1] https://www.govregs.com/regulations/title47_chapterI_part97_...

> The FCC doesn't allow encrypted traffic on amateur bands

Would traffic that is not encrypted but is instead authenticated (with a MAC tag or AEAD'd) be allowed? What are the exact FCC rules and laws at work?

Here is a video of a home-built setup based on Raspberry-Pi [1] and an opensource software stack on a fixed-wing aircraft. For use on quadcopters the problem is the latency. Analog FPV systems can achieve around ~20ms latency.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjAuPoiAmHE

You are right, with the current state oft LTE and a digital video pipeline we are not yet competitive to analog latency. On our Sky Drone FPV system we get a glass-to-glass latency of ~150ms which is good enough for controlling a drone at some altitude. It is not good enough for competitive racing though.

But I am confident the time will come. The next gen cellular network aka "5G" will reduce the network latency significantly and with some new technologies on image sensors (super high framerate, global shutter, ...), I am confident that it will eventually make analog setups obsolete.

5G networks will be coming online in the next 3-4 years. It will have latency in the 1ms range.

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2017/02/5g-im...

> A network in communication with UAS must support a mechanism for intercept by authorized parties in the event of an emergency. This intercept could be simply for status information, for transmission of exclusion zones, or for forced landing in extreme cases.

Oh man, lawful intercept features for UAVs, this sure is gonna be interesting.

Leaving aside the 'should they be allowed to question' - let's hope they succeed in making unauthorized access impossible. That would really suck as a remote exploit.

Impossible... Hmmmm. Not a word you hear used very often in security circles...

Internet of flying things.

Internet of Flying High-Velocity Bricks...

I watched SkyDrone lie for a couple of years about how far song their supposed product was, so am kinda surprised to see them back in the limelight. Their website said "shipping next month" for over a year IIRC. I guess that sort of thing is the new normal...

Actually, does anyone have any evidence that skydrone has ever shipped anything?

Looks like /u/skydrone might be able to share more info or shed some light?

There is currently a discussion including some of our customers on diydrones: http://diydrones.com/profiles/blogs/sky-drone-fpv-2-now-avai...

Where are the customers? I've flipped through a few of the comment pages and didn't see any. I can't believe the diydrones.com interface is still so crappy all these years later! EDIT: I see Kevin Klemens on P3 and indeed he seems happy with the purchase. Congrats to SkyDrone on creating a real thing and selling it!

You are right, we indeed had some problems with our first product "Sky Drone FPV 1". Our new products are on stock and shipping though. Some background of what happened: https://www.skydrone.aero/blogs/news/the-sky-drone-journey-s...

Regarding the mistakes section, the technical side of that is something I've also experienced. When you're working with smartphone derived hardware and platforms you get a pretty sophisticated platform that can do a lot, but it also takes a lot of effort to get everything working and stable. And you'll need to know how to use everything from linux build tools to an oscilloscope. And then 18 months to 2 years later, a new generation or hardware is out so you get to start again :-/. Very labor intensive.

Thanks for owning up somewhat. At least you guys weren't quite as bad as OSRC...

On a side note: Qualcomm is the top patent filer in LTE domain before Intel, Samsung, and Ericsson. [1] https://www.greyb.com/top-50-innovative-companies-of-4g-lte/

This seems quite obvious now, looking at how much Qualcomm is involved in IoT.

I'm surprised to hear that LG is leading Intel though.

patents are basically a form of currency now. sad.

edit: or rather, patents are the money, licensing is the currency.

You're right on both side. Parents are currency when it comes to occupying a market or deterring competitors.

To me they look more and more like the warheads of a MAD setup.

This looks very interesting and I have two questions:

1. How much cost in data are we talking about? There are some benchmarks on what 10min of video uses. Are you able to get cell data cheaper than a normal consumer?

2. With a 107 certificate, is it legal to fly this past VLOS and without a visual observer? Trying to see how this works in the US.

No, 107 does not permit flying beyond VLOS. That requires extra permission from the FAA through a waiver. (I have my part 107 remote pilot's license)

1. Does the drone attempts to automatically land in case of loss of connectivity ?

2. Do you plan selling the drone with ready-to-use sims ?

3. Is it possible to set up the drone not to fly too far away from the controller position ?

All I want to know is when can I fly my DJI phantom via cell network?

Unfortunately DJI is not very open to third-party integration (at least for their consumer drones). So while you will get unlimited range with our LTE based Sky Drone FPV system, controlling a DJI Phantom is not possible. Any other drone with open serial telemetry port will work though - like all the PX4/APM based drones.

Off topic question if you may happen to know: I'm looking to invest ($10k or so) in one or more publicly traded small cap drone companies - do you happen to know of any? I'm not necessarily looking for drone manufacturers, but perhaps more so regular companies that are using drones to enhance their traditional business (aerial photography would be one example, but too obvious).

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