How Applying Principles from Psychology Can Improve Dating Success
zacharyburt.com
zacharyburt.com
I've seen math used to model relationships on HN a couple of times, and even as an intellectual curiosity I believe it to be a complete waste of time.
Using social dynamics and behavioral psychology as a method for avoiding social mistakes gets you way further than applying it as some sort of game, from any "guru" of any evo-psych, behavioral analyst, game-community leader or persuasion researcher/author.
No doubt that's true in many cases. But there's a sizable category of single males who constantly wind up in the friend zone with women because they (who am I kidding: we) fundamentally don't produce attraction. PUA techniques are designed to correct that; I can't do them at all, but they really work.
This hypothesis was tested by Feynman (Surely You're Joking ...), naturally with success. I think I'd feel a little weird trying to psychologically hack my love life (if I had a love life). Also, the mathematical approach doesn't work:
Let x denote beauty, -- y, manners well-bred, -- "z, Fortune, -- (this last is essential), -- "Let L stand for love" -- our philosopher said, -- "Then L is a function of x, y, and z, "Of the kind which is known as potential."
"Now integrate L with respect to dt, "(t standing for time and persuasion); "Then, between proper limits, 'tis easy to see, "The definite integral Marriage must be: -- "(A very concise demonstration)."
Said he -- "If the wandering course of the moon "By Algebra can be predicted, "The female affections must yield to it soon" -- -- But the lady ran off with a dashing dragoon, And left him amazed and afflicted.
--from "The Mathematician in Love"
Having sex with your mates?
Honestly, having sex with your (female) mates is the best thing you can do. My biggest problem is finding things in common with women I'm not friends with, but I've already got a list as long as my arm and leg with women I'm already friends with.
Honestly I could have spent every night in the pub giving 110% game and I wouldn't have got nearly as much sex as getting married. For a nerd it was a no brainer and my penis thanks me.
Not really. Do you buy drinks for your friends? Of course you do! But do you buy drinks for strangers in bars because you're interested in becoming their friend? No, that would be weird.
Why would it be weird? Because buying drinks is widely recognized as a sexual come-on. It's just not a very good one. It's not very good because it's a signal of the form "I am sufficiently desperate for company that I am willing to bribe you just to talk to me".
Anyway, it's a bad idea for all sorts of reasons, but "friendship signal" is not, I think, a good description.
I think the most important traits to develop are confidence, mystery (not being predictable) and humor. Take care of yourself and try to keep looking nice, but don't hone in on that aspect.
Obviously this guy is a cool dude.
Why should we settle when the world is full of girls that could match our preferences? When people start their own startup, they have high aims. Why should we aim low in our relationships?
In college I remember a lot of girls had core requirements that were like: 6'4" and taller. six pack, seven-figure salary, nice clothes, nice smell, college degree, nice and monogamous, good in bed, good kisser, a bit of a bad boy.
And I'd think, "if you could land this guy, there are clearly things about you that aren't apparent upon first meeting you." My next thought was, "prepare to spend your life being single"
These traits are typically opposites. Monogamy typically doesn't work with a bad boy. Six pack generally doesn't suit up with a 7-figure salary.
The few people I've met that fit the six-pack and 7-figure salary are typically construction workers that have gone on to own their own business. These two rarely coincide for long since the 7-figure salary typically excludes any more physical work and requires sitting in a chair.
For those not in the know, when you're consuming ~4000 calories a day and not gaining weight because of physical activity that when you stop being physical you generally don't stop eating those ~4000 calories until you gain ~20lbs and bury the 6 pack.
Why not?
"Even though I was dating her, she really wasn't good enough for me."
Later he says "that doesn't mean she's not a great individual". Gag.
If you really want to blog about how your ex wasn't good enough for you, just do it straight out and take the heat.
However, your criticism is valid from a practical perspective, so I sincerely thank you.
You're a man, have the balls to dump a woman you don't want to be with don't be a douche and string her along just to get laid it's pathetic.
Hearing a guy talk about "preferred excellence in a mate" sounds to me like someone who would be better off working through one of those professional matchmakers you find in the in-flight magazine, that or a 5,000 dollar sex doll.
I'm not so hot on OP's tone, but for people looking for relationships it seems a lot more productive than the "lying through your teeth while maintaining a veneer of confidence" that so much of the PUA community relies upon.
There have been numerous posts about dating on HN (and reddit) over the past few days. I think all of it can be summed up as: "care, but don't care too much". All of the advice on OP's post can really be broken down to that axiom.
which makes it a really, really poor tactic if you ever plan on seeing the girl again.
Donno, I have multiple friends who have been/are in happy long-term relationships as a result of the community. These are some of the biggest nerds until they found the community.
Sure, for a while a lot of the new entrants become super weird and awkward but when the dust settles, I think the community has helped many, many people!
Having said that, in the last few years, there has been an influx of gurus claiming to know the secret. They are nothing more than snakeoil artists who don't know shit about getting with the other sex beyond ripping off desperate--but financially okay--men.
That's a very convenient thing to say, but the phrase "too much" is really a compacted way of saying "are much as the situation would call for in order to be successful, and no more," at which point you really have a circular definition. How do you succeed? Do what you need to to succeed.
In other words, if you want to do the right thing, you should do what is good and not what is bad. Also, we should elect the best representatives if we want our democracy to succeed. And here's some good dietary advice: everything in moderation, don't eat too much of anything.
What mystery is talking about is simple attraction psychology, and it is all based on evolutionary psychology. Incidentally, so are all "serious adult relationships". Mystery says that women are attracted to men who display three things: 1) they're leaders of men 2) they are desirable by other women 3) they take care of their people. As anyone who has been in a "serious adult relationship" can tell you, these things are just as important for maintaining attraction in a long term relationship as they are in a one night stand.
The things mystery and more serious evolutionary psychologists have elaborated on are valid in all cases where men desire to maintain the attraction of a woman. It isn't entirely selfish or manipulative either. Women want to be attracted to you.
Confounding this, of course, is the huge challenge of overcoming ethnocentrism--you might assume that standard Western behaviors and attitudes around sexuality are universal human things, but in a lot of cases they're just culturally-dependent arbitrary crap. Evo-psych won't help with this. As far as evo-psych helps you, at best it'll help you attract cro-magnon hunter-gatherer chicks, not affluent Westerners with all kinds of cultural influences added on, influences that evo-psych fundamentally has no way of predicting.
Behavioral psych is tricky since any psych study on affluent Western chicks will have conclusions which can only be confidently applied to affluent Western chicks, but if that's who you're trying to pick up that's a help, not a hindrance.
In the West not many people get married without dating first...
Me too. And for some reason I'm still single...
2) Be annoying and don't answer back, even when you know the other person is very punctual.
3) Actually pay attention and compliment the other person on what they like to do.
4) Make yourself look better (dress up for dates).
5) Be confident.
Alright, I'm just gonna move along with my life...
Really, I thought this was for important and interesting articles, not some stupid "pop culture" magazine forum.
The only real pre-requisite for dating is that you like yourself; if you like yourself, then other people will (although not all people.) Everything else you'll have to learn experientially - everything from how to collect a phone number to how to tactfully handle delicate / awkward situations.
Having a good time, joking, laughing, and enjoying yourself is going to help you a lot more than focusing on the pitch of your voice - but that's just my perspective.
In reality, these dating self-help books and the people who use them creep me out a bit. Mostly because I have a sister and many close female friends.
Sure there is a lot of bullshit around, but the basic principle of all this pick-artist business is, you're using a "routine" anyway, just without being consciously aware that you are, instead you should take conscious control of it.
I buy drinks for women, and get bought drinks by women, especially if I'm out on a date. I generally don't have any issues with it, and it never really affects my chances - maybe it's just the culture I live in ...