Windows 10 S won't let you change the default browser or switch to Google search
theverge.com
theverge.com
We had a saying in Xbox that you didn't get to become a Microsoft VP until you'd cost the company a billion dollars with some boneheaded mistake. (Data: The Xbox 360's lack of a pad for its DVD drive, the Kin phone -- which was actually a $2B mistake). I guess someone wants to be promoted.
[1]: https://www.geekwire.com/2016/xbox-360-scratched-discs-why-t...
I agree, it's stupid. But it does not warrant a fine.
That's the good side effect of the fine.
Why? You can still buy non "S" editions where you can change the browser. This is essentially a browser subsidy from MSFT :-)
Not even close to answering the original question, but technically, you can install Firefox for Android on some Chromebooks.
Chrome OS devices run Google’s Chrome browser & nothing else by design.
OK, some of them now run Android apps, so I guess you can install the Android version of Firefox on one or two Chromebooks at the current time, but the rest are definitely Chrome only, unless you switch them to developer mode and install a different OS.
Microsoft has been doing so good community wise and I think this is the most evil thing they could have done. They are trying to be a walled garden.
edit: deleted one word and spelling on one word
Each time I think they've changed, they make it clear that they haven't
They've been acting evil like this for 40 years now; what makes you think they're ever going to change?
New blood, and fear. Gates is gone, and Ballmer was humiliated by the iPhone. Management now has to be in constant fear of ceding more ground in the consumer space. And they know that as consumer goes, so goes business... 20 years later.
Many of Microsoft's recent moves are heartening. Supporting Mono officially. Implementing web standards quickly. Backing off this signed app stuff in Win10.
MS has never had as much commercial pressure as they have now. They can't afford to alienate their niche supporters they way they could when they were the de facto everything. That gave me hope.
Of course old habits die hard, but I don't think it's impossible for a company to evolve. IBM did. Apple did.
MS is masking their fear of being ridiculed for ugliness by focusing unduly on design. The result has been "form over function." And now, MS pays lip service to productivity.
They also focus intently on security to avoid being ridiculed for unsecure software (viruses, bugs, crashes compared to Mac and linux). The result? Closed Windows Phone and Windows Apps which unfortunately doomed both; and forced updates with intrusive data collection.
Last but most important, MS's is as fast as a tortoise compared to Google, Apple, Amazon... They can't seem to make up their minds on features, app and OS design - hence the multiple reboots of Music turned Groove; Universal apps/Metro apps/UWP; Wp7,8,8.1,10->?, skype/message app, Metro skype and now UWP skype.
For a company which built itself on compatibility, the constant change in direction is death by a thousand cuts.
Stockholm Syndrome.
"...something just irks the hell out of me that they think that this is a cool thing to do."
Yeah, restricted freedom and anti-democratic business practices irks a whole lot of us. :)
Microsoft's just been trying to be Apple ever since the Zune.
Long story short: you can still decide when you want to update Windows - 10 steps instead of one.
Detailed Steps:
Open Computer Management
After disabling the Windows Update service in the Computer Management Console, click on the Recovery Tab. There, turn first three options to "Take No Action." Else, the service will reactivate itself after a while.
This way, you control when you want to update.
Note: If you use Defender, manually turn on the Update Service when you want to update the definitions.
That seems risky security-wise.
I'll just stick to my Linux machines, which update without bringing me down for half an hour.
No, some of us bitch and moan about Apple whenever it's on topic and this is also a logical fallacy of sorts ... if Apple does it, that doesn't make Microsoft's actions OK.
No, some of us take the down votes and voice our opinion. :)
>Recent numbers from consulting firm Futuresource paint a similar picture, with Google commanding 58 percent of U.S. K-12 schools. Windows is in second with around 22 percent and the combined impact of MacOS and iOS are close behind at 19 percent. It’s a rapidly shifting landscape. Three years earlier, Apple’s products represented nearly half of devices being shipped to U.S. classrooms
Can students install anything like Steam on Chromebooks or iPads without jailbreaking them?
It feels like once people see 'Microsoft' in the headline they lose all sense of perspective and automatically scream murder but Google and Apple get a complete free pass to do whatever lockdown they want.
Turning on "developer mode" isn't exactly jailbreaking, so yes, they have access to the underlying Linux and can even run a Linux desktop environment of their choice on top of ChromeOS. They can't install Steam because that only supports x86 but you can't blame ChromeOS for that.
I'm pretty sure you won't be able to do that with Windows S, so, no, it's not exactly like ChromeOS.
edit: See http://www.dudleymediagroup.com/Detail/id/how-to-game-with-s...
You are correct, it's not. You can turn Windows 10S into full, unlocked Windows 10 Pro in a few seconds, and that's fee for education users.
However, Windows 10S does solve a lot of problems for education users in preventing kids from downloading non-Store apps that may not be easily removable.
I may be wrong, but isn't that basically AppLocker? Why introduce a custom version of your operating system if you could easy merge such a feature into already existing administrative tools (assuming that it isn't, I'm not that familiar with AppLocker)?
Windows 10S is much more flexible and requires no set-up and no maintenance. If it's in the Windows Store, you can install it.
Bear in mind that schools run fleets of PCs and children do not have their own. They get whichever comes off the trolley. The Windows store installs whichever apps they use when they log on.
> How is ChromeOS not a limited version of Gentoo that it's based on and locked to Google's cloud for "ease of use and deployment"?
I don't understand the statement regarding Chrome is advertised as a solution for certain people but is not a general purpose computer?
Windows 10 S has some very capable general purpose computers that are limited.
If you cover the whole market from thumbdrives to server farms, you're obviously going to make different versions to fit different usage scenarios. People do that with Linux, too.
Windows 10S is just a new version of Windows 10 Pro that addresses certain needs in the education market in particular.
If you don't want it, don't buy it. If you buy it and decide you don't like it, you can upgrade it to Windows 10 Pro. No big deal.
It's frankly insane to have hissy fits about it destroying civilization as we know it. It's not.
Instead, the Chromebook posts and comments on here are mostly about how they're malware free and perfect for older parents and kids, and how they're selling like hotcakes taking over the education market from Windows and Macbooks.
Chrome OS was a new system to basically be just a browser that made it easy for my mom and daughter who have serious issues keeping Windows or OS X systems stable. I hand them the Chromebook and tell them that if they need anything they can download it. It works for them and I don't have to save them from disasters all the time.
So I see it as a tool that works for these types of people and is much better then a tablet.
I don't see how Windows 10S is different. It'd be free of malware like "codecs" and spyware that's so common because everything has to run in a strict sandbox plus approved through the Store approval process.
Everything you said applies to Windows 10S as well and if you decide as a parent that you want your child to run whatever they want there's an option to upgrade to Windows 10 Pro. They're marketing it to Education users just like Chromebooks are, not as a 'general purpose computer'.
Windows 10 will still be available on all other devices so I don't understand how you perceive these devices to be so different from Chromebooks. You can hand them to kids and parents and not risk them getting unstable or harmed by downloads.
Your 100% right but
1) The Hardware. They have a $999 Surface Laptop that screams general purpose laptop, but it is Windows 10 S. That right their is the reason why I brought up Steam. That is a laptop very capable of doing a lot but instead it is a Chromebook lock down?
2) The world knows Windows as a general computer operating system. Now we had RT and now S that changes that.
It may take a decade or more, but if Microsoft sidelines Win32, the market will find an alternative. Hundreds of millions of Windows users will not be ignored and will not surrender commercial freedoms that Microsoft itself has proven technically possible.
How is that any different from Steam? Every major company today wants to be a walled garden controlled by proprietary systems. Its either that, or they wan't to be a subscription service or a toll booth. Its unfortunate, but simply selling software is going away..
Is it a feature of Steam OS to allow multiple stores to be installed?
Steam isn't a walled garden, because you don't have to use Steam. You can use gog.com or humblebundle.com or gamersgate.com. Heck you can buy a game on Steam and gog.com will have the game for you on galaxy. You can buy humble bundles and get steam keys.
Steam is a store and you can buy the same exact products and use them on your computer. Windows 10 S you have one store and can only buy it from one place.
That's as arbitrary a definition as any.
Walled garden = A hyper-controlled environment where you have zero control over access to content and services.
If steam is "just a store" why do I need steam installed _AT ALL_ after I purchase the game? Why can't I just run the binary? After all, I paid for it. Next, Valve can ban my entire steam account at any point in time for any reason, without any recourse, and kick me outside the 'garden' and locking me out of every single game that I purchased. They have complete control over who gets to play in their garden and how they play. Now, I happen to like _SOME_ of the things Valve does, but I don't kid myself into thinking its something it isn't.
>Windows 10 S you have one store and can only buy it from one place.
Steam is an application, not an OS. Now I wonder if Valve will allow Microsoft to have a store on Steam OS. That would be an apples-to-apples comparison.
* It can replace the free licensing for cheap tablets which had fairly extreme hardware restrictions so normal laptops couldn't use it. These restrictions probably had the unfortunate effect of giving the impression that Windows was unusable on tablets because these devices had to have limited RAM to be eligible.
* Now, they can give free or cheap licenses to devices with any specs, but get the payment for a full version later if the users want it. This way they can compete with higher-end chromebooks.
* By preventing users who aren't tech savvy from installing junk that will clog up their system, they can actually give them a better experience.
* They can give developers yet another reason to put their apps in the app store, even if just using their new conversion tool. Maybe there's still hope that people will actually use the app store!
* Because the upgrade goes right to Pro, rather than Home, for $50, this actually isn't a bad deal for individuals who want Pro anyway. Currently I think that's actually more than a Home->Pro upgrade. I imagine they'll fix that, but even if either upgrade route is the same price, the OEM cost for the 10 S license should be cheaper or free so, it might be cheaper to buy a 10 S computer and upgrade.
Still, from a user's perspective, Microsoft locking down the OS and trying to force people into the Windows store doesn't seem that reassuring, and if you can't use WSL I probably wouldn't want to use 10 S anyway. I might buy one of these laptops and install linux, though.
> Because the upgrade goes right to Pro, rather than Home, for $50, this actually isn't a bad deal for individuals who want Pro anyway.
Yes. It's basically the Pro version of Windows because it needs to support the corporate-style installation, maintenance and control features needed in the education market (InTune etc).
The switch to the Pro version is free to education.
> Still, from a user's perspective, Microsoft locking down the OS and trying to force people into the Windows store doesn't seem that reassuring
It's very reassuring compared with the hazards of downloading Windows software on the open web. I don't see a massive user revolt against the Apple, Google and Amazon app stores, do you?
>Second of all, in a walled garden macOS, you could not have most of the Unix tools, because they break the sandboxes.
Which tool breaks what sandbox? I think you're conflating root access with userland UNIX tools.
1) Apple should have built an iBook after they built the Apple TV which broke the touch model.
This hasn't lessened their grip on the market at all, Android now dominates the mobile scene and Google keeps tight control.
So I just don't get Apple and Microsoft.
Google has a MASSIVE advantage over what competing services can do on Android – trust me, I’ve tried to replace them with FLOSS ones without rooting.
Meanwhile here's Apple, the only apps that can be installed have to come from the App store (where Apple gets their 30% cut).
Many companies even distribute their internal tools over the Play store. You can't expect normal users to go find some arcane setting and accept security warnings in order to enable standalone APK installation. Incidentally, the option is hidden in completely different submenus depending on Android version and customizations by the manufacturer.
The developer agreement for the Play store even comes with an "anti-competition clause," explicitly forbidding anyone from distributing software that could compete with Google's app distribution business. Unless you do it outside the Play store, in which case you have yourself a bit of a chicken-and-egg problem.
If you try to install an app without unknown sources, you receive a notification telling you where to turn enable installation, if you desire. It's not nearly as complicated as you're making it out to be. As for the security warnings, it is a security risk to install apps from unknown publishers. It's extremely similar to what Microsoft does when you try to install an unknown exe.
I'm not talking about techies here, but about plain ol' Joes.
It's a bad business call.
Or they will just pay the $50 and get full Windows 10? I can't say if it's a smart business decision, but at least they left a way out.
However, he will notice that his Windows can't run Steam and his games on Steam and his collection of Win32 applications ;)
Windows S / Windows Store, Android and ChromeOS / Google Play Store, iOS / App Store - those are comparisons.. and honestly, I don't care about either of those. Maybe Android.
I've learned from WP and its store and platform's and store's extreme failure not to trust Microsoft to do it right anytime soon. Windows Store was (is still?) littered with crap. I also don't trust Microsoft on market delivery considering I got in touch with their online chat support and asked where I can buy Surface Studio in EU. Answer was that they don't sell it in Europe. Nice. Thanks and bye. Kind of like with Razer. My money is off the table for you guys.
the 14 hour battery life is great too / but / the first thing anyone should do is upgrade to windows 10 pro
http://www.techrepublic.com/article/4-alternatives-to-the-ch...
You can't install apps from outside Google Play (for Chromebooks that can run Android apps) or Chrome Web Store. But you can unlock it (developer mode) and get basically a Gentoo with a custom display server and desktop environment.
The admins can lock your options down and apply a lot of surveillance too.
But to strictly answer your question, the Chromebook does allow you to turn on developer mode, where you could then install a Debian/Ubuntu chroot via crouton, on which you could then install Firefox. So in a word, yes.
Chrome let's you use arbitrary apps not selected by Google; web apps. These apps are first class citizens in the UI with all of the same OS access as Google's apps.
Does Windows 10 S allow you to change the search engine? No.
[edit]my own programs are macOS and iOS - so no experience on Windows programming in 10 years[/edit]
1) well except for one they might not be aware of https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2015/11/guide-chromebook-priva...
It's good ole M$.
Also, how can S purport to be faster when it's apparently 10 Pro sitting on the disk? Are there background services that don't get started until it's unlocked?
UWP apps run in sandboxes under Windows Runtime, not in Win32.
Presumably there are some benefits from this, but it depends how many parts of Windows itself use Win32. For example, the new Settings app runs in Windows Runtime but it still hands some things off to the old Control Panel, which is a Win32 program.
I'd assume the eventual goal is to move everything to Windows Runtime, leaving Win32 to wither and eventually die, at least in the consumer market. I suspect enterprises are too slow to change for that to happen in business market.
Bear in mind that UWP apps will run very happily on the ARM-based Windows laptops that will arrive late this year, whereas Win32 programs will use a Rosetta-type emulation.
Additionally, the option to change search engines in Chrome is one click away in Settings. With Edge you need to drill down to Advanced Settings just to change the search engine.
IE, What Gandalf or Obi Wan perhaps should have said.
Not allowing a user to switch to another search engine is nefarious and insidious. But then, this is the old Microsoft after all.
All of today's computing platforms come with shiny shackles. I guess MS doesn't want to miss out on that.
B) I'm having no troubles setting up firefox as my default browser with whatever search engine I want for all apps on android.
The 2000s after Bill and the lawsuits, they were softer.
Windows 10 and the whole debacle about phone home data (sending microphone audio, webcam pics, keystrokes) and now this closed eco system on their desktop/notebook monopoly asks for another Antitrust lawsuit that splits the company in a Office and other company pieces.
And it will be a "great success" with near 100% conversion rate because the upgrade will be forced on everyone.
No, they won't. There's 3 different versions of Windows 10 now: Home, S, and Pro (and Enterprise for big corps). People who don't like the limitations of S are free to buy one of the other two versions, and they'll probably even an easy way to "upgrade" to Pro for $$$. Over in Europe, if that's not good enough, they'll just eliminate S and stick with the other two versions, and let only Americans get suckered by the S version.
As in, "suckered into getting a version of Windows 10 Pro for $50"?
The upgrade option is already there in 10S, and it only takes a couple of seconds to authorize it.
Do iOS or ChromeOS even support installing a different browser without jailbreaking? How does a new OS with 0% share fall afoul of anti-trust laws?
Is Microsoft prohibited forever from making something like iOS or ChromeOS while their competitors do whatever lockdown they want with their platforms?
What's IE's and Bing's marketshare anyway? Is it 98% like Windows was in that case you're referring to?
I can't speak for Chrome OS, but yes, you can install other browsers on iOS (Chrome, for example). It's required to use WebKit behind the scenes, but it's still the Chrome browser experience.
I think that these days, people are more worried about google using its monopoly for anti-competitive practice than they are worried about Microsoft. I know I'm more worried about google in this regard.
I still hope they're going to get slapped for this though, because it quite clearly is anti-competitive behaviour.
It was mildly entertaining to read this line in that wiki page:
> Industry pundit Robert X. Cringely believed a breakup was not possible, and that "now the only way Microsoft can die is by suicide."
Ironically as far as browsers are concerned IE6-~IE9 was a fair attempt at suicide.