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Comment by StavrosK | Hacker News Reader

In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol. I think that's mostly because the culture is different, as people don't generally drink to get drunk like in other countries. You won't see the round-after-round drinking that you see in the UK or US, people will generally buy one or two drinks, and will rarely get drunk unless it's a big night out (or if they're reckless kids).

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>In Greece, we don't check IDs for alcohol use (in practice. I think we're supposed to be doing it, nowadays). There are also no on-premises laws for alcohol.

That's not correct. The law states clearly that alcohol purchase and consumption in public are illegal for underage people [1]. It's also illegal to enter premises where alcohol is served, without being escorted by an adult. Unfortunately the problem with Greece is not the lack of laws, it's enforcing them

[1] https://www.taxheaven.gr/laws/law/index/law/213 (in greek)

I'm not convinced it's reasonable to call it a problem. Prohibitionists have done little good, particularly when it comes to lighter drugs, such as alcohol or marijuana.

It's not as big a problem as in northern Europe (alcoholism), but it's still a problem. Alcohol has claimed significantly more victims than all hard drugs combined. I agree prohibition is not the answer, only a change of culture will deter you from e.g. driving when you're drunk. But taking the drunk drivers off the streets or shutting down premises that systematically serve alcohol to kids, is not a bad idea

The farther away from the root cause something is, the less I can get behind it. For example, I'm against banning underage drinking, but I'm for educating teenagers about knowing their limits.

Drunk driving is something that's already illegal (obviously), and the bac threshold is quite low here, although I do wish it was (much) more stringently enforced.

I could get behind more stringent drunk driving enforcement if it wasn't already used as a cash cow in a lot of places.

You can't throw law enforcement at a problem when it itself is a problem in a lot of cases.

I think the law is flawed when it incorrectly assumes everybody's mental age progresses at the exact uniform rate.

They don't. Some people even at 20s, 30s, 40s, haven't had the necessary mental/emotional development.

> the problem with Greece is not the lack of laws, it's enforcing them

Hey, you don't have to tell me, I'm still waiting for smoke-free bars. Underage drinking is enforced even less than that, but it's a much less widespread problem.

The lack of "on-premises" laws is especially of little concern, as we very rarely get public disturbances because of drunk people.

Smoke free bars? How about smoke-free restaurants first :)

To be fair though I'm witnessing a shift the last few years, at least in restaurants/tavernas/fast-food joints. You can more easily find places to eat these days where smoking inside is not allowed.

Yeah, over here in Thessaloniki we have smoke-free places which I try to support by frequenting. I guess we know the answer to the question "how much of your population needs to do something before it becomes unenforceable?". It's 30%, the percentage of adult smokers in Greece.

> (or if they're reckless kids)

Which (right or wrong) is the rationalization behind restricting alcohol to those under a certain age.

Definitely, but you could say the same about many behaviours that aren't currently being age-restricted. Even drunk kids will just have a bad next morning, rather than go out and cause larger-scale problems like vandalism (although plenty do that sober).

Unless they can drink and drive.

Self driving cars should probably fix this someday. All other cars should have mandatory ignition interlocks for breathalyzing.

Someone should invent an bluetooth-connected breathalyzer which at least annoyingly beeps when you drive until you pass. It worked for seatbelts! Kids used to not wear then until the beeping made it more annoying to not do it. Annoyance is a big motivator.

You got downvoted, but I agree with your comment. I disagree with the reasoning of "if you let kids drink, they'll definitely drive afterwards!", but I agree with stronger drunk driving enforcement.

As long as the breathalyzer is only required once to start the car. I drove a car with an interlock one time and it required you to blow into the thing randomly while driving. Failure to do this correctly fast enough caused the engine to die. I felt more impaired driving under that system than I would have after 2 beers.

Pardon my ignorance, but why drink if not to get 'drunk'? Alcohol doesn't taste very nice, so the only advantage I get out of it is that I feel more of a 'buzz'. Is it common just to drink as if it were something that tastes nice, like juice?

Not everyone shares your opinion on alcohol not tasting very nice.

Not everyone has to. He was expressing his own opinion, and asking a question. You don't have to be rude.

The way he phrased it was a definitive statement, which is aggressive and will prime people to respond the way people responded. (Your other post, which I replied to, was way more reasonable than his was.)

Quite confused by your comment.

I like beer. And if I could have non-alcoholic beer that tasted as well as standard beer I'd prefer that. (IMO todays alternatives still taste very different.)

To be fair, the alternatives don't taste like standard beer because they lack an important part of the taste, that is, the alcohol.

As far as I am aware the ethanol is only part of the missing taste. (I think other flavours are created in the same process and during storage.)

But anyway my point still stands: I'd still drink beer if didn't get drunk. Actually I think I would drink more beer then.

I stopped drinking 2 years ago. I never crave the high from alcohol anymore, but every once in a while I get a strong craving for a nice tall glass of beer.

Beer takes a bit to develop a taste for, but it's pretty much sugar water and it goes so perfectly with so many dishes.

I'm tempted to pick up a non-alcoholic beer like O'Douls, but I don't want to start drinking again and I figure drinking non-alcoholic drinks is a step in that direction for me (I'm not a recovering alcoholic, I quit because it was getting in the way of my health/fitness goals).

You probably haven't found the right alcohol that agrees with you. Wine, beer, spirits (whether alone or in a mixer) have myriad tastes and flavor profiles. Saying alcohol doesn't taste nice is a bit like saying "I could never be a vegetarian because all the foods taste the same."

Not judging you BTW. In the long run not drinking is probably healthier than drinking. Certainly the case if one struggles to control the quantity of drinking.

I think it's too bad that you got downvoted for asking a reasonable question. I don't like the taste of alcohol at all either, and I never drink because of that, but yes, I do think that most people acquire the taste. My girlfriend, for example, both likes the taste of wine and the "happiness" she gets after two glasses.

For me it wasn't "acquiring a taste"--it was finding the taste that I like. I tried a lot of stuff and thought most of it was crap. Beer tastes foul to me (all of it, from Coors to IPAs and everything in between), as do most liquors (gin, vodka) and while Scotches are drinkable I find a lot of them are the IPAs of liquor ("duuuude, it's so smoky"/"duuuuude, it's so hoppy")--but I happened to find that I really like Irish whiskeys. I'll drink Jameson or Bushmill's neat or a little ginger ale and it's great. Been drinking them for most of a decade now. Still don't like the others I mentioned.

There may totally be nothing that fits your flavor profile, but I wouldn't write it off totally as an acquired taste. Might just not have found what clicks for you.

That's entirely possible, but I don't think it's worth it enough to even look. I think being drunk is a waste of time, and there are health concerns in overdoing it, so I've never found enough motivation to look for an alcoholic drink I might enjoy.

I also actually think that it's the taste of the actual alcohol that I don't like, because I can't even have food if it has a little bit of liqueur in it or whatever. The taste sticks out greatly.

I can buy that. I totally know people for whom the taste totally sticks. I've found some success in cadging together something that (without being a sugar bomb) often can appeal, but it's a tough thing.

There is a difference between a "buzz" and vomiting in the street. The argument I've seen is that by not giving teens an outlet with lower concentrations (eg beer, wine) from a younger age (16, like Europe), the USA doesn't let its youth learn to manage alcohol consumption in a healthy way; this results in more crazy behaviour and poisoning cases.

Many people do enjoy the taste. This is why nonalcoholic beer and wine exist.

Also, my understanding of the word drunk is that it means "very or extremely intoxicated." Even if you hated the taste of alcohol you could still put up with the taste and have a small amount to feel slightly intoxicated and still not be drunk.

Sipping beer instead of water while manually relocating 3yd of topsoil makes the job suck a lot less.

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