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Comment by avn2109 | Hacker News Reader

If this thing could be persuaded to run Linux out of the box with no driver problems, it could be a Macbook killer.

Have you tried Bash on Windows? Been using it lightly (still dual boot) but it's pretty good experience.

Linux was brought up because grand-grandparent says it can only run stuff from the Windows Store, so I'm pretty sure that WSL is out of the question.

Sibling comments note that it says you can upgrade to to Windows 10 Pro for $50, or for free until 2018. The free upgrade seems to be possibly linked to this deal (it's referenced in the store page), but the details take you to the Windows S page which notes that upgrading from Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Pro is a normal feature of Windows 10 S (although it notes "affordably", so there is usually a cost).

Microsoft has let you easily change Windows edition for some years now. It was called Windows Anytime Upgrade in 7, it dates back to Vista.

Unusual that the Windows RT-alike supports it, though, but perhaps that's because Windows 8 and Windows RT were mutually exclusive in their hardware support (x86 vs ARM), and this isn't.

For anyone considering running linux this type of nickle-and-diming is more likely to push them over the edge than to stay with windows.

If you stay with windows you get more of this kind of thing, if you jump ship then you never have to worry again.

The wonders of using software without paying for it.

Without having to pay for it. You can easily pay for most Linux distros.

I personally do pay for the FOSS tools I make use of, but I bet the majority that find outrageous to pay for OS X or Windows software aren't willing to pay for anything on UNIX FOSS clones.

WSL is in the windows store.

Windows 10 S has all the CLI stuff disabled, including WSL. The registry editor is also absent.

How aggravating. This is why I left Windows. No marginal cost to them, the functionality is inside but turned off. I really have a hard time with that idea. It seems...well...just plain mean.

The cost is all the users who find the "magical guide to speed up your computer" online that involves registry hacks and such, and end up breaking it instead (and blaming Windows for it).

It seems like the intent is to end up in a similar place to iOS, with the entire system "curated" end to end. Which is not a bad place to be for many (most?) users. The problem with iOS model is that there's no way to escape it for power users, but it looks like it's not the case here - you can run 10 S if you want iOS-like experience, or you can run 10 Pro otherwise.

Even their main windows OS has/had virtualization disabled IIRC without getting their business pro or whatever edition (it's been more than a few years). It was simply a matter of trying to get you to pay more for cool stuff.

Well, I didn't.

I ran into this too, "want to play with docker, buy the pro upgrade license". It was one of the final straws for me.

Suspect it is to do with the intended education market. But I know what you mean.

You can upgrade Windows 10 S to Windows 10 Pro for $50 or something like that.

Yes, I've used WSL. Not bad. Even got a fairly complex work application running on it (~3 weeks ago).

Promising for sure.

this would be my dream laptop if it ran linux out of the box.

I really wish a linux laptop with this type of design was put out for an affordable price, I really think its a major opportunity for a large business market there.

I think there is a lot of room for improvement on the "librem' laptops...

The Dell XPS 13 mostly fits the bill in terms of design. The Linux support is excellent.

I second that. Love my XPS developer edition.

They look great except for the battery, it sucks.

Is that Linux' fault though instead of the Dell itself? I mean, Mac OS has app nap and I noticed the difference on the same hardware after OSX 10.whatever introduced it (I got an hour extra battery life!). When I reboot the same hardware into Windows, I get worse battery life than under Mac OS, obviously doing different things and an entirely different architecture (RPC, COM calls etc.) but I know it's not the hardware at fault.

Is Linux architecture at fault for the Dell? Just curious. I wonder if there is significantly different battery life for the same machine running different OS (eg. Windows vs Linux).

I was talking raw WHr rating, not power usage. Linux's mediocre power management is one of the reasons I put extra emphasis on the battery when shopping for a laptop. My t450s w/ the 6 cell external has 72WHr vs the XPS13 of that time had 54WHr. Plus my Lenovo battery is hot-swappable.

They have improved upon this some as the current XPS13 has 60WHr. But they still are lacking in this area.

If you're willing to comprimise on price, the new ThinkPad X1 Carbon is a fantastic Linux business laptop.

The ThinkPad X1 Carbon had just been "coreboot" supported ( so it will be soon the libreboot best/newest one ? ) : that's one big add-point to Linux . ( Sorry if I misunderstood something , it's my first post and I'm not so geeky :) , english too is not my native language )

The model supported by coreboot is the first generation X1 Carbon, which is 4-5 years old now. I'm talking about the 5th generation, which has only been available for a few months.

@lorezhs : Thanks.

Any idea if the trackpad is better? I have three Thinkpads (including the previous Carbon), all running Linux, and the trackpads are just terrible.

I'm spoiled because I'm used to the MacBook trackpad.

the 5th gen uses the microsoft precision standard (i.e. sends the raw input to the OS to interpret) - reported to be as good as the surface book, and close to macbook.

I don't use it (I'm a big fan of the trackpoint), but the trackpad's surface feels very pleasant. Can't comment on the accuracy, I probably wouldn't even be able to properly judge or compare it to the MacBook, but I've heard good things from other people.

It never happened with the other Surfaces, I bought a Pro 2 hoping for some Linux support. It never panned out (Marvell wireless chipset had no drivers)

I ended up going back to an old ThinkPad.

I've been running Ubuntu on my SP3 for years. The wireless drivers were a bitch and required patching the kernel before 4.4 but other than that everything worked nicely. It was just a matter of time getting the kinks fixed.

I just can't see anyone inside MS being able to make the case that they should put effort into making their laptops run anything other than Windows. But I agree with you. I tried to set up Linux on my Surface Book, but couldn't get the keyboard to work :/

Still inside Windows, but it's a good start https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/commandline/wsl/about

Personally I prefer this over a vm, dual boot or running Linux exclusively

This is excellent, but I've also had great luck with recent versions of VirtualBox.

VirtualBox has improved over time, but it's still a battery vacuum.

If… Big words for a machine no one has used yet. I look forward to the reviews but it doesn't look like a MacBook killer to me. Maybe it competes with the base level MacBook. But it clearly doesn't touch the MacBook Pro.

I am agree with that, I won't buy it just because it comes with Windows.

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