Ask HN: Any programmers with long arms?

There are guides you can find about how to position yourself.

Essentially, you want your forearms to be parallel to the ground, and your upper arms just resting normally along your sides.

Next, you get your chair the right height. Again, there are guides, but mostly you want your feet touching the ground.

Then you determine your desk height, which is dictated by what's needed to keep your arms parallel to the ground. Desk height, though, is the hardest to alter typically, so you may find that to avoid hassle you end up adjusting your chair height. Not ideal, though.

I'm also 6' tall, but I've never had any obvious problems getting into a comfortable position with normal desks. You shouldn't either, even if you have long arms. Just find the proper setup. I now have a desk I custom-built for myself. I did measure myself first, but I chose a traditional height for the top--something like 29".

For what it's worth, it can be difficult (and uncomfortable) to change your habits in the beginning, if your posture needs adjusting. I'm a slouch and it is not easy to sit up straight for very long.

Good luck!

This is all really good info, and accurate as best I know. I work for an insurer, so maybe a given, but we take workstation ergonomics really seriously.

I don't have long arms, but I'm also 5'8" - even still, I have the right desk height, monitor height, chairs, etc. I'm now at a fixed standing desk, which I chose because an adjustable desk meant I'd always choose to sit, but none of this is one size fits all. Always measure!

Is there any info out there where you can map your body dimensions like height, arm length, etc. to optimal desk and chair dimensions?

http://www.ergonomics-info.com/image-files/desk_ergonomics.j...

Start with your chair, since your legs are a fixed length. Your chair height should depend on that, not your desk height.

Then hold your arms out at the appropriate level and measure to the floor. That is your top-of-keyboard height, so your desk top should probably be about an inch shorter than that.

Then just ensure your desk has clearance for your legs given the heights. For my custom desk, I had to cut short the apron as I had made it too tall.

Also realize that you have some leeway in the angle of your legs and arms, and that you really must be sitting up straight. (Ask someone if you are!)

Yeah, I'm starting to think I may need to custom build a desk. Desk height is a clear part of the problem. But I'm afraid that the best desk height for preventing tension is going to be around where my knees end up.

The chair will be difficult, because in order to not have arm tension I'll have to have them resting almost down to where my hip bone is. I can't say I've ever seen a chair with arm rests that low.

I'm realizing that the key issue for me, ergonomically, is the "arm rest," which is really not a good name because it is impossible to truly "rest" my arm on one, meaning relax the muscles.

I'm not that tall, and I don't think my arms are long.

but for me having no armrests and keeping my keyboard in my lap (its a shorter kinesis with wells) is the best position to avoid wrist, elbow, and shoulder strain. so I don't really care about the desk height, only the monitor height.

plus with the keyboard on my lap like that I get to shift around in my seat

I've been mulling a standing desk for this reason.

What do you do with your mouse?

i usually tape a trackball to the blank center of the kinesis

> But I'm afraid that the best desk height for preventing tension is going to be around where my knees end up.

I have to respectfully disagree.

Unless your elbows are level with the tops of your legs, when seated, then this will not be the case. Most desks are only something like 3/4" thick (that's the thickness of mine), and you will almost certainly have at least that much of a gap. If you don't, make sure you're sitting up straight.

> I can't say I've ever seen a chair with arm rests that low.

Get one without armrests, or take them off. On my chair they're adjustable, and the lower setting is approximately level with the top of my hip bone. However, that is a couple of inches too short. Again, ensure you are sitting up straight (and get your shoulders rolled back, if you slouch). Proper posture is by far the most important part of this whole equation--coming from someone with piss-poor posture!

I have this chair, and taking the arms off would take me, I think, under a minute: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000Q5XTE8/ref=oh_aui_sear...

I found it recommended in a thread here on HN for chairs. It's basically an Aeron ripoff and I don't have any complaints about it, after a year.

6' guy here, I removed the arms from my chair and just let my arms hang naturally while typing. This has made a world of difference.

I also invested in a standing desk recently and find myself standing about 1/2 the day, which has also helped quite a bit.

Interesting, so do have your elbows parallel to the desk surface or let them hang down below it?

I am 6'3" and both of these have helped me, as well

Did exactly the same a few weeks ago after ~6 months of trying to adjust my typing position to a new chair and I'm already seeing an improvement to how comfortable I feel typing/using my PC!

If the laptop is in your lap are you not hunched? Neck looking down a lot.

On my first employer's onboarding training we had a full 4 hour session by the company's health & safety officer on how to use our chair and desk, and I've found that extremely useful over the past 15 years.

Some takeaways that I've kept with me:

* Keep the top bezel of the screen level with your eyes. I.e. no bending next to see top of screen, and use eyes to look/scan down, or neck a bit.

* Most office chairs have a knob under where you sit and a latch to pull out on the back allowing inclination/declination/free movement. Set latch to free movement then twist this the knob to a setting where you're lying back in the chair in a free-balance position - equilibrium easy to find. I like to leave me chair in that position.

* Fortune 500 type companies spent a lot of money trying to avoid being sued. White-label chairs are commonplace and far higher quality than alternatives.

* Desks can be adjusted or swapped out for alternatives.

* Consult your health & safety person if you have a persistent problem, or in-house medical staff. Just let your manager know you're contacting them, not related to work.

* If you'd like to sit on a bouncy ball, that's OK too.

This was not a modern technology company or anything faddish. This was advice built up over decades of his experience and a century+ of organisational existence. Just share some 2p.

I don't feel I have particularly "long arms", but years at bog-standard corporate issue fixed height desks left me with worrying pains in my wrists.

I've dealt with this by setting my chair height so my thighs are pretty much horizontal, then setting my desk height so that when I am sitting, typing, my forearms are horizontal or nearly horizontal.

I also use a laptop whose palm rest is not huge/deep, so that the front edge is not pressing against/into my wrists, particularly when I am somewhere else and don't have control over the height of the work surface (nor the chair, sometimes). I like the somewhat older Thinkpads for having a palm rest that is not too deep and that has a rounded front edge, e.g. +420, +520 (barely), ++30.

When using a desktop PC with a keyboard, I place a gel wrist rest directly in front of the keyboard -- making sure the final result matches my height/posture/ergonomic preferences. My PALMS rest on the wrist -- ok, palm -- rest, not my wrists.

I mention this last with regard to your situation. I you can get a keyboard / palm rest / posture combination that leaves the ends of your arms resting rather neutrally on your palms, while you type, this might help?

P.S. As I got more senior and less caring in corporate land, I sometimes just brought in some tools and rebuilt my desk, myself (off-hours), to get it to the height I preferred. Going through formal channels might make this a misery, but people wouldn't bother with the fact that I'd "just done it", as long as the work was getting done.

Among the other topics here, I've found keyboards to be too narrow for myself. I kinda need to put some weird tension on my elbows in order to use a laptop keyboard properly.

From there, getting a Kinesis Freestyle was an amazing investment. It seems silly, but the ability to position your keyboard so you don't have to bend your wrists outwards, and so you don't have to put some tension on your elbows is amazing, especially with wide shoulders and long arms.

And yes, on top of that, arm rests are the devil.

[1]https://www.kinesis-ergo.com/shop/freestyle2-for-pc-us/

Have you tried a standing desk?

I am short, and my arms don't seem long... but I've had shoulder pain and arm pain. Things that have helped:

1. Staying warm! Air conditioning is your enemy.

2. Standing desk. Make sure you have separate levels for monitor and keyboard, so you can put keyboard at exactly right height. Also get a good mat, or your feet and back will hurt.

Long version: https://codewithoutrules.com/2016/11/18/rsi-solution/

I have not tried a standing desk. Does your standing desk have arm rests?

I use a convertible standing desk, and when standing I don't use arm rests. The key is to have the desk/keyboard at a height where your shoulders hang naturally. I used to have serious wrist issues and switching to the kinesis advantage was the magic bullet for me. Also a big plus for exercises to help, I do back flys to make sure to strengthen the muscles holding my shoulders from rolling forward.

My girlfriend has to use a chair with no arms because of her arm to torso height ratio makes arm rests force her shoulders up. Which I think is the same issue you are facing.

6'2" guy here with long limbs and shoulder problems.

Sitting and typing on a computer is unnatural, and causes shoulders to roll forward. There really isn't any other cure other than stretching, doing yoga, and performing strengthening exercises.

It's unfortunate, but many in our profession choose to ignore the cons of being mostly stationary, often involving a bad posture, for most of our working day.

Here's a pretty good resource for addressing a lot of the bad posture problems and corrective exercises:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/36r854/a_while_ago...

Direct link to excel sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EgKFYKjUIzpc_ZG_uRg1...

Thanks. I tried doing corrective exercises but didn't find them to be any more helpful for pain than regular cardio or a cup of coffee (which surprisingly works pretty well as a pain killer)

I'm shifting my thinking more towards attacking the problem at the source, which I'm starting to see as the sustained tension of holding my arms in keyboard position. I never had this issue from, say, sitting and playing Nintendo as a teenager for hours, which you could also argue is unnatural.

I'd suggest you try a standing desk for a few weeks. You can easily MacGyver something together that will be the exact right height for you. Before I committed fully and built a proper stander, I started out with a drawing board on stacked books, and a monitor behind those.

Keyboard should be at or just below elbow height, and the top bezel of your monitor should be at eye level, so your head is very slightly inclined downward. I've read that this has something to do with our hunter gatherer past, that we're built to walk, scanning the ground ahead of us for food. You may want to put some fruit in your line of vision to simulate this

Shoulders down. Palm (not wrist) rests. Fingers curved down. Ergo keyboard with wells. Lap stand. Feet up! https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B09JtdOXm0JUpj

Yes! That is what I need, right there.

6'8" tall, never in my life have i encountered a chair where my elbows would reach the armrests, and most tables are too low for me to sit at comfortably. Airplanes are the worst...

At home i solved the problem by raising the tables to a "normal" height. Can probably do the same with the armrests, but i'm too used to them never existing to bother. At works i could usually lower the chair way down to get things comfortable.

While it's the opposite of your problem, i suspect the spectrum of solutions would be the same - make a lot of custom stuff.

I have this problem. It's exacerbated by co-sleeping with a baby, who is extra demanding on my shoulders.

Posture, particularly sitting up straight, and holding my hands in the correct typing position, helps a lot. Making sure my monitors are at eye level and are directly in front of me is critical.

Sometimes, if I get lazy and slouch, my shoulder will get a bad pain and my pinkies will go numb, which is generally a sign of pinching a nerve. It takes quite a bit of fiddling to get the desk-monitor-chair heights all adjusted just so.

> Every office chair and desk combination seems to have the arm rests sitting too high relative to my shoulders

It sounds like an ergonomics problem. Try a chair with adjustable arm rests. And perhaps a keyboard tray to keep that down low so your arms can be roughly parallel to the ground.