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Comment by leggomylibro | Hacker News Reader

This is a terrifying manifestation of what technology makes trivially possible. This device:

* Logs every app and web page that you open.

* Keeps forensics on shared files based on hashes, to track networks of like-minded dissidents or individuals sharing similar files.

* Refuses to open any files which are not signed by either the government, or the device which created the file. (e.g. photos can be viewed only on the device that took them, while government-approved files can be shared freely.)

Among other things. Yikes.

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So, basically Android? Except, you don't get shot in the back. With Android, it automatically syncs Contacts and photos to the "Cloud", unless you disable it. But, you cannot do it 100%, because it's turn on by default when you first sign in. Also, it's not a secret that Google logs your locations history.

As an aside, not all Android ROMs operate in that way. I'm currently using OmniROM with microG, and none of my information is linked to a Google account (specifically on this phone). All of my contacts and calendar are synced with my NextCloud server using DAVDroid, and I use AOSP or other FDroid-approved apps to access my email, contacts and calendar.

Now, all of that being said that's not to say that the current state of affairs is good (and there's still plenty of other problems) but it's disingenuous to ignore that you have a choice with Android and you don't in North Korea.

You have a choice here if you're tech savy and a ROM is available for your specific baseband. I've so far been unlucky with my S6 because I have a rather obscure baseband.

I'm not saying it's anywhere near as bad as living in NK, but the "open" option is not at all known or available to what I'd estimate at 95+% of the population, and many fewer will actually use it.

Don't get me wrong, the "open" option is complete shit at the moment. The fact that Replicant (and _actually_ free Android distribution) supports so few devices (and has so many caveats) is horrifying. There is effectively no way to use a modern smartphone and also exercise your software freedoms.

I don't fully understand that this comment is downvoted. He has a point there. We are all being tracked, just see your history [1] on the google website.

It tracks the websites you've visited, the video's you've watched, music I've played, things I've searched, App's I've used (Camera for example), directions I've searched (google maps), ads I've seen, cards in my feed (google now), my location history (actually very cool and very scary)... There are probably a LOT more metadata they have on me that I don't know

I mean, they have a LOT of my data, they know probably more about me that I know about myself.

Of course we aren't blocked for using any apps or viewing files, but they know that we are using and viewing the apps/files. I think it's in their best interests not to block anything, as this way they get a lot of information they otherwise would not get.

You can compare the "my activity" with "Trace Viewer". It's just a matter of perspective. Don't get me wrong, I don't approve the NK way of blocking everything, but the tracking of the data happens in the West already too and we just "accept" it.

[1] https://myactivity.google.com/myactivity

The difference being that an informed Android user can disable all that logging, or at the very least prevent it being relayed to Google. I don't even have a Google account yet have four fully-functional Android devices nearby.

The penalty for attempting that with the North Korean tablet is going to be rather more severe than "can't say OK Google to do a web search".

I don't disagree with you, but i think that technically we're still trusting Google to not collect it anymore. I don't see it anything other than "Please google do not track this". Are we able to verify 100% that data is still not being collected?

You use a packet sniffer to see all your local network traffic and make sure you can account for every request.

A really weird moment for me was when I took away the ability from my phone to access my microphone from all apps, and yet when I say "Ok Google" the "Google" App opens up and then tries to ask me for Microphone access. I'm running an LG G5 with all stock Android and updates installed. It's a little creepy that an app with no access to my Mic can ask for said access when I say something to my Mic. My guess is the "Ok Google" functionality is at the OS level and not at the App level.

that's actually an optimization it seems, at the processor level there is a low power keyword listener for "Ok, Google" but it just fires the app it doesn't get anything more since you didn't grant it mic access.

A much crazier permission is phone access on Android. I recently noticed Facebook's Messenger had been uploading my call logs without ever mentioning it to me. Only realized when it recommended I call a contact back despite me not using messenger to call them - it saw the call in the phone's history and matched it against its database.

Keep in mind that you're comparing an oppressive regime with... android. The open source phone operating system. And you think this is a sensible comparison?

He's comparing this device's tracking with Google's tracking. Why are you pretending you don't realise that?

There is a difference between opt in and getting yourself and your immediate family killed in the process of opting out. You can also install custom ROMs, or just use android without the google apps and not worry about any of this. You can do this in like an hour. If you're stuck in North Korea, there is damned little you can do other than get shot for sending a text message about it (if that is even possible). Which is what we should be discussing here.

So instead of a potentially interesting thread about this device, what it (supposedly) does, how it compares to tech or practices here, we should have another all-been-said-before-1000-times discussion re-stating the boringly obvious about how grim life is in NK?

This comment thread isn't about any kind of NK tech. It's another all-been-said-before-1000-times discussion re-stating the boringly obvious about how Google is evil.

We have a company that has liquidity that is measured in multiples of this country's GDP.

Great, will they have you and your immediate family killed for speaking out?

No but they could if they wanted to. Maybe I don't even like their power, even without thinking that it's realistic that they'd do it.

It's a comparison worth thinking about, either way.

That site shows no activity for me (and I use an Android phone, Gmail, and other Google products all the time).

He has a point but "So, basically Android?" is a bit over the top.

Also note that unlike North Korean tablets, your own link has the "Delete Activity By" and "Activity Controls" tabs that allow you to remove collected data or disable its ongoing collection.

Google gives you at least some measure of control, North Korea does not. As such I don't think these are really comparable.

Not sure why you single out Android since most "modern" commercial OS send data home in order to develop predictions about it's user. In the western world, it's called assistance. Android/Google at least give you a hint and some control over what kind of information is being collected.

I think it's because android is supposed to be open, so it's supposed to do this the least.

Too true. Shows how long a bit of marketing goes.

This is why I never enter any google account credentials into an Android phone.

I wonder if people will be photographing each other's screens to share photos. Seems like a loophole in the digital signing.

It would seem other tools will fix that "loophole".... The first is a piece of software called “Red Flag.” It runs in the background and takes a screenshot every time the user opens an app.

I would think opening the camera and taking a picture of another tablet would draw suspicion.

That doesn't read much different from a security/DRM feature list of the latest Apple, Google or Microsoft operating systems. I'm sure the North Korean government also only has the best of intentions for the safety of their people ;)

And content creators.

And am I reading this article correctly when it say the Trace Viewer app is visible to the user, so they can see all this logging? That's the most terrifying bit.

If suppressing certain behaviour is the goal then the victim has to be informed somehow whether it is a beating after the behaviour is discovered or a notice beforehand.

Yeah and if North Korea can do stuff like this, it means anyone can do stuff like this. It's trivial enough to do at this point.

You can even buy it online: http://www.mobile-spy.com/screenshots.html

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