Simple Exercises To Help Undo the Damage of Sitting (2014) | Hacker News Reader

Simple Exercises To Help Undo the Damage of Sitting (2014)

artofmanliness.com

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One of the most amazing books I've read about simple ways to correct the muscular imbalances that result from too much sitting is Pete Egoscue's Pain Free at Your PC [1]. His other book, Pain Free [2] is also extremely effective and informative.

The first part of Pain Free explains how muscular imbalances form and, most insightful to me, how every human body has the same design range of motion (with a few exceptions due to birth defects or disease), that is every human body is designed to have the same range of motion but muscular imbalances formed as the result of specific repeated activities (or lack of activity) impede that design range of motion. All of the exercises in the Egoscue Method require no special equipment, only simple things like a chair or a wall (which further convinced me that it's not a fad out to sell something). Highly recommend reading these books if you're interested in this topic.

1. https://www.amazon.com/Pain-Free-Revolutionary-Stopping-Chro...

2. https://www.amazon.com/Pain-Free-Your-PC-Computer/dp/0553380...

Isn't this obviously false? First, humans weren't designed at all. Second, the range of motion is often determined by bone structure, which no amount of muscle imbalance can affect. Check out squatting positions and how they're affected by the variety of hip joint shapes people have. Like this page: https://squatuniversity.com/2016/03/25/how-hip-anatomy-affec...

For people with back pain, for example, sitting incorrectly or for prolonged periods of time can cause certain muscle to not activate when they're supposed to. I recently went through physical therapy for this in which my range of motion was increased due to flexibility exercises. All humans have a "basic" range of motion, but your effective range of motion can in fact be affected by things such as sitting too much.

And you could argue humans were designed by evolution. I don't think the OP meant some alien in a garage sat down and just drew up what humans should be.

I'm not arguing against that, I'm arguing against "how every human body has the same design range of motion." I don't think that everyone achieves their potential range of motion equally well but I definitely also don't think everyone has the same potential range of motion.

The problem with calling us "designed" is that it makes it sound like we are all built to some universal specification. This is not true, but the parent post acts as if it is. Whatever evolution does (call it design if you must), it does not act particularly strongly to get all humans the same potential range of motion.

Hm. I'm not sure I agree. There aren't many humans that can just turn their necks around like an owl. It's not a range of motion that the human body is really capable of, so there may be some people who can twist their neck further than others, but we basically have the same range of motion or even potential same range of motion. In that respect, humans are "designed" to only have a certain range of motion, which kind of implies some sort of genetic specification. Otherwise if we did not have a mostly uniform range of motion (when taken as a whole) we'd have noodle people and owl people and people that could kick the back of their head or something. But we don't.

Did you view the link I provided in my first reply? I think it shows that there are substantial differences, enough to make a statement that we all have the same design range of motion either meaningless or wrong.

Edit: to illustrate why I think it's so wrong to make such a statment, let's consider one of its implications. If we all have the same design range of motion and all differences are caused my muscle imbalances, then when I see someone do something I can't do, I have to conclude that the difference is a muscle imbalance. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the difference most of the time, but I think it's clearly false to say that's the correct conclusion all of the time. So I would sometimes be wrongly concluding that muscle balances are my problem and might wrongly attempt motions that I'm incapable of or waste time on exercises that can't help.

If you remove everything from every human body except the skeleton, you'll find that the joints of every skeleton have very similar (nearly identical) range of motion. When I say design range of motion I'm referring to the commonalities that all of our skeletons share. The human skeleton has two arms, two legs, a hip bone, a skull, a spine, hands, and feet. Each of those are connected by joints and all of the joints have a range of motion that is, for all intents and purposes, the same. (Again, excluding birth defects, post-birth accidents, etc.)

On top of the skeleton we add muscles and tissues and everything else, with the muscles doing the vast majority of the supporting work for the skeleton, i.e., for the most part, the muscles (and tendons) dictate the effective range of motion, i.e., what the skeleton is currently possible of doing. But muscles can be stretched and lengthened, or they can be neglected and become stiff like an old rubber band (e.g., from sitting in the same position for years on end). Stiff muscles restrict range of motion, preventing the skeleton (which, without the muscles, would be fully capable of achieving its design range of motion) from achieving the full range of motion.

Are we all built to some universal specification? That depends on how you define "built" and how you define "universal". Our cells "build us" and our DNA defines a specification. Humans do follow a general standard: between 4.5-6.5 feet tall, two legs, two arms, one head, bipedal motion, etc. There are no 3-foot, 8-arm humans (like an octopus) and no humans with a 8-foot nose (like an elephant).

There are plenty of factors that can affect what range of motion each of us will be able to achieve, including injuries, age, and lifestyle (you're not going to become a world-class runner sitting at a computer for 12 hours a day 7 days a week), but if you're a relatively healthy 20-50 year old, and you put in the time required, you can go from being extremely stiff and inflexible to doing splits and backflips.

> If you remove everything from every human body except the skeleton, you'll find that the joints of every skeleton have very similar (nearly identical) range of motion.

The link I provided in my first post did exactly that and came to the opposite conclusion - that there are differences in range of motion due to skeletal configuration that are significant in at least some activities. It wouldn't be the first time that a fitness blogger was wrong, but the images are pretty compelling.

I'm making a much weaker claim than you are arguing against. I'm making the claim that there are differences between people, and that these differences matter to our range of motion. Pointing out that there are universal generalities between people is not relevant to the discussion. On the other hand, you are making an incredibly strong claim: that there are no noticeable differences. You have provided no support for your much stronger claim.

> The problem with calling us "designed" is that it makes it sound like we are all built to some universal specification.

It's called DNA. We all share most of the same blueprint, and therefore, the same design.

You're problem with "designed" may be that it implies a "designer", i.e. a God. Whether you choose to believe such a concept makes no difference to this subject. There is no need to approve or deny such a thing in this conversation. The end result is the same.

Because we each have very similar DNA, we each have very similar bodies. There are clear differences with each individual, some of these differences come from differences in an individual's DNA, others come from the course of the individual's development. A person's range of motion is heavily dependent on the latter, especially when certain muscles are underutilized.

> First, humans weren't designed at all.

Oh come on. You know what he means.

It's not wrong to care about phrasing when that phrasing leads to wrong results. Anthropomorphising evolution as a designer is a classic mistake to make precisely because it causes us to make real mistakes. The parent post makes a big claim which is based entirely off a mistaken metaphor.

Even biologists and anatomists use the same language as shorthand when they know the audience understands what the shorthand means. It's just more convenient.

The problem with articles like this is they're too long. I understand the problem (prolonged sitting is bad for me), and I don't want to read entire books. I, like most people, just need to know a single exercise. If you start telling me about a second one I could do, I just won't do anything.

Also, describing exercises in words or even static pictures is a bad idea. Just make a short (30 sec max) video, so I can just watch that and do it from now on.

The problem is there isn't a silver bullet "single exercise". Frankly if an article with 7 pictures is too long for you to invest in your health that is concerning. The video suggestion is a good one though I have a similar complaint about many videos in that they spend 5 minutes showing you what should take 10 seconds to demonstrate (not to mention ads).

I suggest you just look at the pictures. They are fairly self explanatory.

I did look at the pictures. I've read most of the article. It's well-written. However, all I remember now (3 hours later) is that there are a dozen of different exercises, and they're already fading in my memory. Even though I now know the problem, I don't quite know what I should do, and tomorrow I'll probably forget about it. A single exercise, even if not the best, is still better than nothing, and it's something that I could think about doing right now.

And I'm more health oriented than most people I know.

Maybe they should put TLDR at the top with the absolute minimum we should do.

Fair enough. What I usually do is copy-pasta the whole thing to a word doc and try to get it down to one or two pages by deleting text and resizing images. Print the thing out and tape it somewhere noticeable (near the home TV?) until you have internalized them.

Probably the minimum you should do is go for occasional walking breaks.

do you typically remember everything you read without applying it? why not try practicing the exercises on a regular basis (say, 5-7 days / week) for a few weeks, using the article to remind you of the forms and technique, and then check back in regarding both your ability to recall, and anything else you are noticing from engaging in this practice?

Right now my goal is to "go on occasional walking breaks" as suggested by runamok below :) If you suggest one other thing that you believe everyone should do to revert sitting damage, I'll try to do it as well.

Unfortunately, rewards only come with effort (well, ok, at least usually)

Great suggestions -- the fire hydrant is a great exercise.

More simple exercises are one leg squats -- if you use a desk to keep your balance, they're not that difficult to do and a great exercise you can do anywhere. Also, you can drop down and do 5, 10, 20 pushups anywhere. While on the phone you could put it on speakerphone and drop down and try to hold the plank position for the length of the call -- I've seen some Scrum meetings have everyone do the plank (shortens the meeting much more than just standing up).

A few more ideas :-D!

I call this Office Calisthenics. It really throws people off. Nothing bad, but they're confused. I've tried to convince some that it's fun. Even did it with a tie on. Didn't get any takers.

Try having a contest or competition. See who can hold the plank the longest or stand on one foot the longest. That makes it fun.

Or it may make people detest your management style even more. I belong to those who cannot stand being coerced into doing some "fun group activity" (whether in office or in a hotel). And when people want to take care of my health in office, why not start with the obvious:

* Don't give me a car - give me a bicycle and tickets for public transport.

* Give me a shower in office or a membership in a gym nearby.

* Invest in good chairs and tables (yes, yes, you all do - until I arrive with my 190cm and suddenly it's .. "we could place some books under the legs of your table!")

Completely agree about detesting the management style. It's not even actually health focused, it's just showing off like you're at a frat house.

190cm isn't that tall, really. (I'm short). Do you normally have trouble with the standard 30-inch (76-ish cm) desk?

It's tall enough that I can neither bend me legs to 90 degrees nor use a regular office chair.

While 190cm is not this tall, it's just too tall to fit into most industry norms: Beds, bikes, desk & chairs are all made for "slightly smaller" people. The 3cm my armrests are missing in height are exactly those 3cm that my whole upper body will gravitate down so that my arms can rest. 2h later I have a stiff neck, 8h later a sore back.

I'm all for the desk excercises and fitness in general, but if anyone ever suggested we all plank during scrum I would immediately quit.

It seems like they would also be looking at a massive discrimination suit as soon as they had an employee with any kind of injury, and potentially a lesser one simply because there would be otherwise healthy employees who felt uncomfortable about it.

I really don't think someone just said "hey everyone we're all gonna plan during our SCRUM meeting today." My guess is everyone in the group already participated in some exercises (maybe the group has an "exercise" time when everyone does some basic working out which is optional but everyone has been participating). Then during one of the exercises (with everyone participating), someone throws out "let's all plank tomorrow during our meeting." If anyone just moans or says "nah" they scrub the idea.

Once we did a "hike" during our work meeting (this was my last job at a swimming pool so everyone besides the cashiers was very athletic) and everyone loved it.

That may be how the idea came up, but it also may not be. No matter how the idea came up they still don't sound like any kind of place I would ever want to work and are still vulnerable to said lawsuits.

its important to hold the posture during the plank or it will have no effect or even the opposit effect. A good goal is 3 to 6 seconds. When you get stronger make it harder by lifting one leg, put the support leg on a ball, and do it sideways.

There's always yoga [0] [1].

I just do the sun salutation [2] a couple of times a day - takes ~5mins, reduces any back pain I get.

[0]: http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/02/20/51567525...

[1]: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/01/12/yoga-key-relie...

[2]: http://yogasite.com/sunsalute.htm

Yoga can be great.

Ditto qigong, tai chi, pilates, isometric exercises, physical therapy. I've even done goofy looking breathing exercises that rebalance your diaphragm.

I also know that yoga, chiro, gyms hurts people. Gonzo attitude, ignorance, and bad instruction.

The trick is to find the therapists and teachers who understand the body, your body, and help you mend. Everyone needs something a little different.

Source: I had a lumbar fusion and some other stuff. I've spent a lot of time just remaining functional, managing pain.

Advice: By 30, everyone should be hitting the gym. By 40, everyone should get regular PT tune ups; you'll be surprised how much function you (unknowingly) lost. Like now I can stand on one foot and put on the other shoe, two years ago I couldn't do that.

Another basic fitness test: Can you put your pants on without sitting down? I know a lot of people couldn't do this without falling or hopping.

You can cheat and lie the pants on the ground ready for you to step into :)

I was also surprised to learn the thing about putting on one shoe by standing on the opposite foot, as that's how I've always put on shoes, and thus never understood the seeming requirement for a bench / chair in an area where shoes come off and go on.

Are we talking tying laces as well?

I've heard* that the discs in your back cannot repair themselves -- they have no blood flow. So strengthen your "core", because if you squeeze those discs (thru bad posture) year after year, eventually they deteriorate. Then your nerves get pinched, and the pain can be insane.

* Not a doctor. Let me know if they self-heal.

I did physical therapy for lower back pain & sciatica. I was told the disc do have blood flow, just not much, but they will heal after being squished. It takes months for my back to heal if I screw it up, so maybe that's what's going on.

As someone dealing with an extruding disc right now I hope they heal.

In all seriousness, my research and speaking with specialists is that bulging or extruding disc do have blood flow and they will eventually reabsorb. Even sequestered discs with no blood flow will reabsorb. The tricky part is dealing with the symptoms while not worsening the issue.

Even after an epidural steroid injection, I've been told it could be months before my very large extrusion is gone. So it is a very slow process. The good news is that some research shows that your body can actually be better at absorbing the larger extrusions.

They self heal, slowly, as long as they can. In order for them to self heal, they have to stop getting squished at all, for long periods of time.

I never knew the importance of core exercise until I squished some discs and experienced pinched nerves. Core exercises build up the muscles around the discs and can help prevent them from getting squished. But you have to also find out which activity is squishing them, and stop that too. Exercise alone won't do it.

Pain is the first part of what happens. Pain nerves run along the outside of the spinal column. Motor control nerves run inside the spinal column, so the second part is the pain goes away and your muscles stop working properly. That's the really scary part. Even though the pain can be bad, as long as you feel pain, you're closer to healing than after the pain goes away and you develop a funny walk or can't do pushups anymore.

Nothing fixes my desk-related back issues like being regular at my gym, doing deep squats and deadlifts. When I can't manage my priorities, it's only a question of time before the old back starts complaining.

An office job is basically 40+ hours a week of practicing disengagement of the posterior chain (via sitting, likely with poor posture). Deadlifts are such a good treatment.

Yes. The deadlift is probably the most universally useful exercise, when executed properly. It really is worth the effort to learn. (Closely followed by the squats.)

Yes, but it's also quite dangerous, even with proper form. I hurt my back quite badly doing it properly.

You weren't doing it properly.

Ah, yes, the well-known "no true deadlift" fallacy. No, you can hurt yourself quite effectively even when doing it properly.

If you're handling weight you shouldn't be handling, obviously; that's when form breaks.

Sorry to hear about your back.

I'm quite sure I wasn't breaking form at the time, and I'm not very satisfied with the explanation that you only get injured when you break form, as then "breaking form" becomes synonymous with injury, not something you can actually do to avoid getting injured.

Were you lifting too heavy for your form? It happened to me, see my other reply just above. Nothing technically wrong with my lift, I believe, except it was too heavy for my overall strength. That lead to eating the humble pie for me.

I don't think I was, I was doing Starting Strength, so if it was too heavy, it would have been by 1 kilo or so. I doubt it, though, because I had plateaued at the time, so I just lifted around the same weight every time.

I wasn't overly exerted, I had done the lift many times with a straight back, etc, something just "popped" during one of the lifts, and my back hurt like hell for weeks, and nowadays that injury comes back once a year or so and renders me unable to move for a few days.

That's a shame. Hopefully you've been able to resume your workouts? If at a very light level, it could help put things back in place.

I have a shoulder injury which means I'm struggling to get past 40-45kg on my press. However I'm happy to just keep doing it and terminate at first sense of a twinge; After doing this for a long time it now seems ready to go up a bit.

No, I quit after a while for not very related reasons. I play tennis nowadays, which is much more enjoyable. According to my PT, what you're doing is what one is supposed to be doing, so that's good. I'm sorry to hear about your injury, though, I hope you recover!

rfz is quite likely right.

compound lifts (and even more so the olympic lifts) are _quite_ complicated. chronic compensations and movement issues get ignored in everyday life because they don't cause "problems", but they can manifest into injury when lifting. adding strength to dysfunction is a problem.

i've also never heard a fellow lifter at the gym say "my form was perfect and i still got injured", it is _always_ "yea i messed up my from a little and it bit me". despite listening to dozens of hours of coaches and physical therapists talk about this stuff none of them have ever said "some people do it right and just get injured". this paragraph is contextual in the sense that we're talking about people lifting less than 500 pounds. the guys on TV deadlifting 900pounds (400 kilos) are doing something different to their body than the guy at the corner gym lifting 225 pounds.

the problem has a lot of facets. most people don't know what their body should feel like. unless they record themselves many people have only a vague idea of what they are doing, and certainly not a good idea of what they might be doing wrong. toss in the fact that you can build enough strength to hurt yourself fairly badly in a couple of months a lot of doctors (general physicians) who don't know what they are talking about will say things like "that's bad for you" because they're helping you avoid injury they best way they know how, which is not to do it.

Very true. I almost included in my post above that I went about learning deadlifts multiple ways. First, I read Rippetoe's Starting Strength book and watched countless videos. Then, I would take selfie videos of my form that I'd look at myself and share with a few close friends further along in their training than myself to get their feedback.

Finally, I also would seek out PTs who looked like they knew their lifts and just book them for single sessions to correct my technique. I would do this several times, as form tends to slide. Well at least for me. Most PTs would offer a free session however I insisted on paying for it as I only wanted the technique check, and not someone to hold my hand every time I needed to go to gym. I think I got respect from them for that. (If I could afford it I'd have their assistance a lot more, alas I couldn't justify it.)

Having said that, I still managed to do my back in after a deadlift session last year. Not during the session, but after - as I went to lift my son the same night who suddenly decided to make himself heavy. It hurt a bit but then was ok, however the next morning I completely locked my back up getting out of bed. Lost out on 4-5 months of training thanks to that. Lesson learned: I was probably going too heavy, too soon. Also, to listen to my body and drop the ego 100%. If something doesn't feel right, just stop, let it recover, and save the energy for the next session.

About to start the 5x5 Powerlifting program now, with the Android app - am looking forward to seeing the results. The reset will include dropping weights a lot, but also locking in 3 sessions per week - a big increase from my previous 1-2.

I prefer cleans, but to each their own. Deadlifting is great too.

For nerds needing inspiration to lift, it's worth checking out my personal favorite Youtube personality, the absolutely ridiculous clarence0:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-o1lUurXwc

I would put squat and deadlift at the same rank personally, just because they are very similar in their impact. Closely following behind them would be a vertical pressing exercise (e.g. barbell overhead press) and a vertical pulling exercise (e.g. chin-ups or pull-ups) because it feels great to decompress the spine after putting so much weight on it.

I agree, it's hard to split squat and deadlifts in terms of how good they are. Do them both! And yes, overhead press is fantastic - it's a great way of engaging the whole body too. I need to be doing chin ups more, however just a bit too fat to do them in numbers; have just been hanging off the bar to stretch my spine out.

They are, provided they are done correctly. One of the bad side effects of sitting so much is that one is constantly putting all their weight on their glutes and hamstrings, which can have some nefarious consequences when trying to deadlift (namely that the lower back ends up taking most of the load, instead of it being partitioned between lumbars - glutes - hamstrings - quadriceps).

If you can afford it, a good coach is key. If you can't, spending a couple of months watching videos and drilling the lift with light weights while filming yourself to correct your posture is a good plan B.

Some places have standing desks now. I almost never sit at work now, except in meetings. I also have a FluidStance balance board that I stand on while at my desk. I like this combo a lot. It's not a great workout, but I've noticed a lot less back trouble vs sitting.

I agree. The muscular and postural demands of a loaded hip hinge work really well to stimulate the muscles that a desk job atrophies.

I keep a kettlebell under my desk and do a few dozen swings several times during the day.

He's right about taking it easy if you're tight or sore. I've hurt myself from cranking into stretches or exercise without a gradual warm-up. Want more stretch + pace ideas? Do like the Japanese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnZJINpzhs8

Another front page post compliments this one: Why Walking Helps Us Think (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14235398)

i.e. Do your thinking while walking, not sitting and hunched over a screen. Your brain and your body will love you for it.

it would be awesome if you could walk and program. back pain can come from static hand posture. and swinging your arms is good for the back. i imagine parks full of programmers that time to time bump into each others because they are in deep focus.

You can jump on a stationary bike when you code! I have my road bike on a trainer in front of my computer (standing desk) and I can code while training. The height is almost perfect because the handlebars go under the keyboard platform (it's still not comfortable though). Most of the time I'm just watching tv shows but I've done some coding while cycling before.

Isn't that the point of the desks with treadmills?

you cant swing your arms while typing though. im thinking wrist censors for input and vr like helmet or glasses for output.

Or some half decent voice recognition / brain implants when ever they arrive.

Not sure you'd want to do this walking around outside though, seems to increase the likelihood of hitting trees.

I usually walk around or do house-hold work when solving hard problems, it's slow as my mind is somewhere else but I think that with a brain implant or voice recognition like you suggested it would be totally doable to program and do other stuff at the same time.

A screen-reader might also be used for output.

Ah - I was thinking as a replacement for your wrist input and VR helmet. I'm guessing you're not planning on doing house work with those on :)

How about using Squat Toilet and do the Grok Squat a part of daily routine than a conscious effort...

Squatty Potty for the win!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbYWhdLO43Q

Semi unrelated but I like the art of manliness podcast

Does anyone else work at a standing desk?

I tried. The problem is standing without moving seems to be just as bad as sitting. As you tire you will start shifting weight to one leg and locking the hips to one side.

I then tried a half-reclined chair which was a bit better. Then I switched to a flat hard chair without back support. That was tough initially (more so than standing desk) but seems to be the best option so far. Other than moving, of course.

Try standing on a balance board at your standing desk. That works really well for me.

I stand on a small inflatable pillow (originally for sitting on); 3 bucks, works like a balance board.

The desk-treadmill is even more interesting to me, as you can even exercise while working. But at this point a little over my budget, would love to rent one to try for a while :)

I just bought a used one for $100 and removed the rails and put the controls on my desk behind the keyboard. It was ok at around 3kph.

The one I bought was a bit too narrow though so the rails have gone back on and I just use it for us intended purpose now.

I've read several times that a conventional treadmill will not cut it for walking-desk purposes.

The ones at my gym would be fine since they seem to be about 15cm wider. Mine is fine for running but when walking I seem to have a wider step. Other than that there would be no problem with it.

I use a simple can of beans and place a board on top and balance on it through out the morning. During lunch I eat the beans but this leaves the problem of not having a sturdy can to balance on.

My standing desk is not high enough for an additional can+board. :( Will try non the less, a side of the desk :)

use a motor table that can be adjusted in height. then lower it and Sit down when you get tired. First you will only be able to stand for minutes. After getting used you can stand up to an hour. Get a thick mat, and take your shoes off.

get a cheap 1 usd camping pad insulate,fold it, and you got a 200 usd ergonomic mat.

I also recommend the kitchen mats at costco. I'm not sure if they still sell them but for $15 I couldn't tell the difference (well any large difference) between it and the $150 ergo mats I've tried.

I do, sometimes. It's nice to mix things up throughout the day. Where I work they're standard issue to all employees. Pretty awesome!

I do. And it definitely helps. Initially I felt tired at end of day but more alert while working at standing desk. No struggle with trying to stay awake.

Half day sitting down and half standing up seems best.

Does anyone use a small treadmill with slow speed at a standing desk?

I saw a video a year ago, looks like a good idea, I am planing to buy a small one

Linus Torvalds seems to use a treadmill with his standing desk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuS-3HSnpq4

Hello wsc981, This one is off topic and I am sorry about that. A while back I have read here somewhere that you are/were freelancing and doing so via Computer Futures. Can we get in touch? I've got couple of easy to answer question. Thanks fella developer.

Hi sevmardi, we could chat over email. You could contact me on wsc981@gmail.com

I know someone who used to play warcraft this way.

I did but the one I bought was too narrow so I've put the idea on hold for the time being.

I got one after my doctor recommended it. He was jazzed about the Trek Desk, which is a small-ish folding desk that fits over most treadmills. It seems like a TV infomercial product, but it did what it said, and it was a cheap way to start and not have to buy a super heavy integrated treadmill desk.

I loved walking while I worked. I can't stand and work, my feet start to hurt surprisingly fast, but walking I can do all day. I felt better, and it cured my afternoon post-lunch crash, I no longer went through an hour of trying to stay awake. It helped my back feel better too. One hard part about using it for me is the constant stream of interruptions I have, people needing to talk to me during the day. I have to turn it on and off a lot. (The Trek Desk, btw, made it slightly harder to reach the start/stop buttons.)

Even with them being small, one of the biggest problems I had is the setup is still bulky. The treadmill takes a lot room in a small office. It's pretty noisy too, even just walking, so consider the noise if you're in a shared work space.

Yes, I have an IKEA bar table that I bought second hand and I stand at that for 8-12 hours a day, 6 or 7 days a week. It was kind of exhausting for the first 6 months or so but now it actually feels really weird to sit at a table and work. I really like how standing for long periods of time forces me to want to move. I find that I walk away from the computer and go outside for short walks a lot more frequently than when I used to sit. When sitting, I found that several hours could pass before I realized how long I was sitting. Now that I've been standing and working for so long (over 2 years now) sitting feels like an absolute luxury and I've started to associate standing with working and sitting with relaxing.

I tried standing, but discovered I have to walk. When standing my feet start to hurt within 5-10 minutes, and it gets unbearable after 20.

Lots of people I know use them though, and report loving them. Most people have a thick mat to stand on, and say they shift their weight a lot. Some of them don't end up standing for long periods because they're in and out of their office so much.

It's also a lot less expensive and lot less bulky to try a standing desk setup than a treadmill, so either way I'd recommend standing first. You can even use a bunch of boxes to prop up your keyboard & monitor -- or bricks under the desk legs -- before you invest in any other equipment.

This is really nice but all these excercises are really heavy on your knees. Are there alternatives?

This is exactly what I needed. The couch stretch is a miracle.

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