The Best Shoes for Kids Might Be No Shoes | Hacker News Reader

The Best Shoes for Kids Might Be No Shoes

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65 pointsmooreds58 comments

I grew up running around barefoot as a kid in Zambia. We used to play football (soccer) anywhere with no shoes. Didn't matter how rocky the field was. The only time we wore shoes was to go to school.

Occasionally you'd step on a thorn or some broken glass but I can't remember that ever hindering us in any way other than enduring the mirth of your friends at your misfortune.

It's ridiculous now how I can barely make it across my pebbled driveway barefoot without crying out in pain.

I grew up in Zambia too (Kabwe). Still remember playing "frukutu" (makeshift ball from old tattered rags and pieces of string) bare feet, pretending to be "Champ" Chitalu!

There was a game we also played outside in the rains called "Taach" ("touch"). A sort of Catches in mud, with slides and all the messy fun!

Incidentally, lack of shoes was the cause of hookworm epidemic in the American south into the 20th century, and there was a (clearly) successful humanitarian effort to shod southerners. Hookworm infections stunt growth, which made some southerners dwarf-like. It also saps your energy and was one of the reasons southerners were considered lazy.

So yea, you want your kid to wear shoes, at least outdoors.

https://www.abebooks.com/9780870496851/Disease-Distinctivene...

You might instead consider if it is possible to go outside and avoid stepping in human feces (which is how hookworm is transmitted) [1]. Presumably in the American south in the 20th century people were defecating in common outdoor areas.

[1] https://www.cdc.gov/parasites/hookworm/gen_info/faqs.html

Dog and cat feces too. Ever seen that on the ground? Also, San Francisco :)

Edit: Also, no, outhouses were the norm in the American south. That doesn't mean their environs were sanitary though, and this was indeed where people picked up hookworm. As far as I know, the only times Americans would/will defecate in the open was on the frontier/in the wilderness, that is, when no other options exist. In spite of the meme that Americans are not so different from some people in rural India who defecate in their own water supply, one of the first things built in a given American frontier settlement was an outhouse, because poop is gross and toxic.

It'd be pretty interesting to see the present day incidence in animals, looked after and stray. I wouldn't be surprised if it were rather low in both groups.

Let's just be clear, Americans as a people really are "not so different" from people in rural India. It's the environments that differ. The American West always had more than enough acres of land that people could spare a pit + outhouse on top of it, and rural India is... well, crowded. It's not as if rural Indians are innately unsanitary people who will seek out water sources to shit in.

Everyone replying to this article seems to be under the impression that it's a Boolean choice- shoes and poor foot development or no shoes and a long list of terrible other things. And this is a news site for innovation?

I've worn a variety of minimalist shoes, from vibram five fingers (you get looks, and they can smell awful, but they feel amazing) to Nike's thin soled line. Currently wearing a normal looking shoe with a vibram thin-sole and loving it. We can have the best of both worlds!

It sounds to me like what kids need is something closer to a strong sock- protect the foot, leave room for growth. Someone get on that!

> Nike's thin soled line

Not sure if you mean those Nike Free shoes, but I've loved wearing those in the past. Seemed to reduce foot injuries when I was running track and cross country.

Vibrams or something like those Nikes seems like a great middle-ground -- it's not a Boolean choice between being barefoot and wearing wooden clogs.

huarache sandals work fairly well for some

>It sounds to me like what kids need is something closer to a strong sock

I haven't tried the adult shoes, but this company makes kids sized too. http://www.softstarshoes.com/kid-shoes/youth-shoes-size-1-5....

I like Vivobarefoot shoes. They seem really well made; last a long time. Pretty much all I've worn for the past five years.

I've tried the Nikes, but I prefer some of Merrell's running shoes. They keep changing models, so I can't give you a link to the exact ones I've bought, but [0] and [1] look similar. These are both zero-drop models, meaning the heel is no higher than the forefoot; they bend well under the ball of the foot; and the toe box is very wide and roomy.

[0] http://www.merrell.com/US/en/bare-access-4/17570M.html

[1] http://www.merrell.com/US/en/trail-glove-3/17571M.html

Merrell has backed off their old barefoot line and quality. The trail glove 1 was great. I still have a pair with no tread left and they're still great anywhere but mud. On trail glove 3, they started adding arch support. Now there are none without some support in the arch.

If you can find old stock Reach in your size, they're a great more formal shoe. Leather upper and a similar sole to the trail glove 2.

Related: Research finds that optimal skull development occurs in the absence of artificial cranial deformation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_cranial_deformation

Yes, it seems pretty common sensical.

Does that include pressure apply by teachers?

You are against wearing helmets?

Plus some children need assistance because of cranial deformation issues so your statement isn't really true either unless you think the doctors are wrong.

I would say that when a device is used to prevent cranial deformation rather than cause it, that is exactly the opposite (not sure what it is called, google brings up "cranial remolding" and "molding helmet") of artificial deformation.

What I am saying is that most feet, as with most skulls (and even, I daresay -- as e40 humorously mentioned -- most brains), form naturally, without external "assistance".

Holy hell.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/83/Ka...

I'd love to go barefoot, and let my kid go barefoot--we live in the country. But we have chiggers here and that's a show-stopper unless you want to be miserable for a week after.

I've been tempted to see if I can...I don't know, build up an immunity? Or get rid of them somehow?

But it doesn't seem possible.

If anyone knows a solution, I'd be happy to hear them!

I don't know if you want to try building up an immunity to Lyme disease.

Whether or not one goes barefoot (which is the context under discussion) has little bearing on whether one gets Lyme disease or any other tick-borne illness.

We do have plenty of ticks here. I wasn't aware that chiggers carry Lyme, though.

According to purdue, they don't: http://www.purdue.edu/uns/html3month/2001/010716.Gibb.chigge...

True. AFAIK chiggers don't cause anything but itching.

That said, they live in pretty much the exact same environments.

Go barefoot inside, put on shoes or sandals outside... Your feet, and your kids feet, will be absolutely fine.

I am less concerned with the health of my feet than I am with the feeling of being barefoot.

Not to say I'm disregarding the evidence presented, but I'd like to be barefoot more than I am currently.

I wear muck boots nearly all the time I'm outside because they seem to shed chiggers and ticks pretty well. They're not especially comfortable, though, and are nothing like being barefoot.

FWIW shoes and sandals are nearly as bad as going barefoot, if chigger bites are the measure.

Maybe not entirely a solution, but you can spray an insecticide that also sees use as a topical medicine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin

Reading about their feeding, I don't think you can get much immunity to the bites.

I think this is the preferred method for people in my area who wish to have a pristine, bug-free yard.

In my case, I don't think it's worth it. I wouldn't feel right spraying that over everything for a few reasons. The affect on my (downhill) neighbors' property, the killing-off of beneficial insects, etc.

I'm not against chemical use, I just don't think it fits for this. I'll keep my muck boots on.

> While it might not make sense to walk into your office barefoot, you can set an example by taking your shoes off when you enter the house

And this is where I'm once again reminded of that odd American custom of wearing shoes indoors at home.

I dunno, I know lots of people that make a habit of taking shoes off at the door.

Most of my extended family, lots of other people, etc.

If you mean doing it at all, then sure, lots of people wear shoes at home some of the time.

This is more common in dry climates where shoes don't get as dirty/muddy. Notably, this describes California, where most TV shows and Movies are produced. It's not as widespread as it would seem from American media.

I was surprised that there was no link to the Society for Barefoot Living http://www.barefooters.org/

I think the piece is actually an instance of a press hit as described by http://www.paulgraham.com/submarine.html since it ends up linking to http://www.feetfreex.com/single-post/2016/10/07/Feet-Friendl... who have a product to sell.

Maybe if you live in a yoga studio.

Real life has asphalt, sharp bits of metal, thorns, and snow.

Fractures, tetanus, infection, and frostbite aren't optimal either. (Note: this is why footwear is not a recent invention.)

> Maybe if you live in a yoga studio.

I mean, I live in a house - and that house has either carpet, tile, or a covered in hardwood, so that's a good place for being barefoot.

Finding flexible, neutral footwear for most anytime else is not a problem. The spectrum is flip flops to the most fashionable trail runner. I'm a buddy with one the biggest proponents of minimal footwear during the whole born to run craze.

He'll still jog barefoot, but only for like, 10 minutes after his real run. He needs shoes like the rest of us, since his goal is to run fast.

I really agree with this that kids are better off in most environments without shoes, and probably everyone. I'm an adult, but for years I've had to wear orthotics. I recently started climbing stairs and even small mountains without shoes occasionally and it's helped get my foot arch back, I no longer need orthotics. Hundreds of millions of Indians in villages walk and run without shoes, thorns, rocks, etc. don't bother them that much. You want to of course avoid walking in waste-water or where there are ticks or other dangers, but I think in most sanitary environments it's better to not wear shoes.

There are some photos I've seen in the past of kids feet who had worn shoes and who hadn't worn shoes, and there was a lot of difference.

You have to be careful. In Hawaii there is a parasite carried by semislugs that can melt your brain.

FYI, foot wounds are very susceptible to infection. So yes your kids may have better arches, but if they get a severe infection from a splinter in the deck that's probably going to offset those benefits.

This makes me think of "foot glove" shoes like Vibrams, which are designed to give the minimum of impact/penetration protection against splinters, nails, etc, but constantly replacing those as the kid grows would probably be rather expensive, given that they have to be very well-fitted to avoid friction blisters and the like.

http://www.newsweek.com/vibram-caught-flat-footed-250388

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/22/barefoot-shoes_n_53...

http://www.runnersworld.com/newswire/vibram-settles-class-ac...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2625700/Bizarre-bare...

Absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

Those links relate to Vibram making unverified or unproven claims, not claims known to be false.

If you make claims, and you can't prove them, you're lying.

And yet, the claims may still be true.

Moral judgement of making unsubstantiable claims is different than proving the claims false.

Is that a subtle version of "This sentence is false"?

That looks a lot like a claim to me. Can you prove it?

Okay, sure, so they aren't effective at "strengthening muscles or reducing injury", as Vibram claimed.

Those aren't the benefits at issue here, though.

While this is purely anecdotal, I run in Vibram FiveFingers shoes and find that I have fewer blisters and less pain afterwards than with conventional running thick-soled shoes. YMMV.

How far do you run?

I run ~20 miles a week (not that far) in normal shoes and never get blisters.

I don't run that far but I'm very prone to blisters. Weak skin I guess.

I also use Vibrams for running, hiking, and normal daily activities. Some in the biomechanics field swear by them. I just like how they feel and look. It seems logical to keep a shoe as close to barefoot as possible since the foot evolved without any of our modern sole/shoe tech.

Yeah, no kidding.

If only we had some sort of technology in the 21st century that makes it so people very rarely die from infected wounds. Perhaps a type of medication that fights bacteria? Or a thing to sterilize the wound and keep it clean while it heals? Hmmm

That said, I used to run barefoot all the time. Even in San Francisco. Never got any wounds or infections. After a year of practiceb even stepping on glass didn't pierce my skin.

Or just shoes.

MRSA can eat a kid's foot right off you know.

Isn't MRSA something you can pretty much only get in a hospital?

> MRSA is becoming a critical problem in pediatric settings;[38] recent studies found 4.6% of patients in U.S. health-care facilities, (presumably) including hospital nurseries,[39] were infected or colonized with MRSA.[40] Children (and adults, as well) who come in contact with day-care centers, playgrounds, locker rooms, camps, dormitories, classrooms and other school settings, and gyms and workout facilities are at higher risk of getting MRSA. Parents should be especially cautious of children who participate in activities where sports equipment is shared, such as football helmets and uniforms.

Hmm ... guess not. Sounds like running around San Francisco barefoot is actually safer than doing anything at all in day-care or a sports club O.o

Yes, like many life changes, being barefoot takes conscious changes, like covering the deck (or more extreme, moving)

I step over used needles in SF every day on my way to / from work. No thanks.

UGH! unscrollable page!

Cool, a new hysterical trend. Are we done with kale and paddleboard yoga yet?

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