How Web Forums Make Neuroticism Viral
truthhawk.com
truthhawk.com
This is not true. Every single human being has multiple different sides/personas depending on the context in which they engage.
For example, many people think "Trolls" are some mythical category of assholes they will never run into in real life, but the thing is, everyone can act like a troll depending on the circumstance. This is why Twitter can't fix the spam problem. Because they think the goal is to eradicate this mythical group of people. But the reality is everyone on Twitter is in one way or another annoying to someone else, without even them realizing.
I am probably much much busier person than OP in real life, but I still have time to post on HN. I am definitely not a weirdo and neurotic who has nothing better to do. I probably spend less time posting online than the OP spend time watch TV shows.
The reason I say this is because without understanding WHO exactly "trolls" are, you will always lose. When you understand trolls are just ordinary people like yourself, only then you can find a way to deal with them.
p.s.
I have acted like a neurotic person on certain forums when I was in a desperate situation, and I am perfectly aware of that. That doesn't mean I am a weirdo who has nothing better to do. Anyone in those situations would probably behave that way too. Knowing that doesn't make it any less annoying, but my point is that I can sympathize, and I know that these people are not all weirdos.
http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/622/581/94e...
I'm not entirely sure OP (of the 97 page PDF) is not mentally unhinged but I'm assuming it is part of the joke.
One popular way to fix this is to allow or encourage users to cocoon themselves in intellectual bubbles. This solves the annoyance problem but discourages the discovery of new ideas, stunting the development of the individual, and thereby the utility of the forum.
University students, especially those who go on to complete a PhD, progress by studying more and more about less and less.
Also, practising a religion certainly isn't a liberal arts major in comparative religious studies, in the same way neither is joining a political party.
And yet here we are with all this progress regardless.
I got the "I must shoot 10,000 free throws to be prepared" attitude about becoming a developer -- must know Linux, concurrency, all interview questions, salary negotiation, and so on. It was daunting but ultimately correct, I got the kind of job I wanted and doubt I could have done it without being neurotic about it.
Or maybe I would have been fine and I'm still being neurotic and overdoing it. This article's perspective is helpful because "Remember that all this advice is coming from neurotics" was not something I took into account.
Nicky Case: WE BECOME WHAT WE BEHOLD; a game about news cycles, vicious cycles, infinite cycles
"ᴛʜᴇ ᴍᴇᴅɪᴀ's vicious cycles. Here's the feedback loop:
conflict → the media blows it up → even more conflict" [1]
https://ncase.itch.io/wbwwb ( need ~5min)[1] http://blog.ncase.me/we-become-what-we-behold-a-post-mortem/
https://medium.com/@parkermolloy/5-things-the-media-does-to-...
Uh.. hey...
But seriously, I think it's also simple the case that an anonymous internet forum is a great place to vent your innermost feelings.
It is about the origin pathological ideas and how the internet might make them more prevalent.
I'm quite convinced that online communication is really Lo-Fi. Though I'm still wondering whether it does more harm than it does good. I can only speak for myself, over the last 10 years I decreased my online life a lot and I recommend others to do the same. (Apart from work, but I mean that's just coding stuff and mostly researching. ;)) Ironically there's a global trend in the last 10 years making "online" cool and most people spend many hours socializing online.
This is a complete and utter lie. People routinely tell it to themselves without realizing its blatant falsity.
Most people find conflict unsettling and can handle it only in the smallest doses. People identify their ideas with themselves and take attacks or criticisms of them as personal slights. In written media like online discussion, these responses are amplified because there is little room for tone or other dampening/mitigating signals from the speaker, and the written form makes the harsh words seem more final and official. A slighted person will often feel the need to respond on the record, whereas in person they may have been more likely to dismiss the remark.
Cognitive dissonance creates a powerful feeling of unease. When that signal is received, the common interpretation is to make some passing attempt to rebut, like "You know, it's not even worth the time", so that you feel like you won, and then to never return to the place that caused bad feelings.
The reason that reddit has always been a big echo chamber and unable to really get mainstream adoption is because it has a fixed front page. This doesn't account for the differing mainstream tastes. reddit has a steady supply of atheistic young men because that's the audience that they appeal to when you load up reddit.com.
Despite the lies they tell themselves so they can feel noble and open-minded, people DO NOT want to be challenged. They want their egos stroked.
If confronted with an idea that seems contradictory to something important to their self-conception, they will immediately become defensive; this is true even among friends when it can sometimes be recovered, but strangers online have zero social capital to deploy to absorb this hit. For most, taking a position in a discussion is nothing more than a way to signal allegiance to a tribe. If your users do not have a way to ensure their experiences aligns with their tribal values and preferences, they will leave.
This is important for tech entrepreneurs and people seeking to "bridge the gap". It's bigger than many people realize, and much bigger than people will willingly admit. Efforts in this direction must be baby steps, and no one should expect to perform a great reconciliation.
> ... a complete and utter lie
I'd say that's an overly broad generalization, if it wasn' for "IMO" and the following
> People identify their ideas with themselves
Which is an obvious self-reference. I would on occasion say "you" to mean "one", but actually mean "me" in an hypothetical fashion.
But then comes the offensive attack:
> Despite the lies they tell themselves so they can feel noble and open-minded, people DO NOT want to be challenged. They want their egos stroked.
This is an informal accusation that would upset people because its unfounded. See, I can write an informal accusation all the same, but I don't expect you to like it. I can't really write a formal argument about it, because I lack training in formal rhethorics.
I don't think it's [just] me. Identity politics is based on attempting to program this impulse.
>This is an informal accusation that would upset people because its unfounded.
I think the evidence is abundant. It upsets people because it trivializes their behaviors and makes them feel unimportant and predictable (that is, it fails to stroke their egos). People like things that make them feel in control and important. Commentary around psychological realities rarely does this because psychology itself is about analyzing and generalizing human behavior.
almost no one can or does live up to them. That confuses neophytes.... so don't be stymied by sage advice!
Those kinds of forums are top results because they minimize distress. Google having solid advice for every little thing would drive people neurotic.
Is this always true?
I mean, of course it's true at the extremes; if someone literally spends _all_ their waking hours posting on forums about X, they're probably not getting very much X done.
But discussion and polemic is more complementary to some occupations and disciplines than others, one must acknowledge—as this article seemingly doesn't. Publishing academics spend a lot of time on rigourous and structured rebuttals of each other's theories, a kind of highly professional and esoteric Reddit with long bibliographies. They probably partake of some informal channels to soft-trial some of their positions and hone some of the thorny bits before pushing to production, so to speak. They might spend a lot of time on that.
Attorneys learn how to write more eloquent and persuasive pleadings and briefs by way of practice. A lot of practice. Surely some of them chisel the background knowledge and social skills required to operate in their world online. If that's a serious learning tool, you're probably using it more than 15 minutes/day. You might even have a senior badge on some PHPBB legal board.
A lot of skills can be learned or improved on the Internet by reading and participating in sometimes contentious discussions about them. The strong religion in motorcycle repair and boating forums isn't all puffery and neurotic wheel-spinning; a lot of the commentators are quite well-informed about the range of available componentry and DIY techniques, even if they sometimes bite each other's heads off in arguments about the One True Way to overhaul a marine toilet or which ape hangers are the best.
The hours developers spend arguing about React vs. Angular on HN aren't necessarily wasted; some of the discussions are rich, vibrant and informative, and make both the writers and the readers better developers or technical managers.
I myself learned a great deal about history and politics in high school by arguing heatedly with informed people online. If I were an aspiring politician or writer, expository writing in support of a particular ideological conviction would have legitimate value and relevance as a skill set, and this kind of exercise helps to hone it.
It takes a certain kind of personality to devote a lot of energy to online discussions. Some people don't like to think and argue about methodology or meta- issues, or otherwise engage their analytical faculties very much when socialising. They just do. Good for them. However, this is a difference of style rather than substance. Everyone has to have "continuing education" of some description to remain fluent in their field. And yes, of course there's a limit beyond which pure theory and no practice lies for simple reasons of time and economics, but it just depends.
So, I don't disagree with the fundamental premise, but as is so often the case, this article paints the online world with a broad brush.
However, I think that the author is correct that a lot of fansites/forums/groups for [what are normally considered] casual interests are full of very obsessive people whose advice and opinions are not worth taking seriously. In some cases, these people may be completely non-functional and detached from reality.
It's really important that we step back and allow ourselves to see and enjoy the whole picture, instead of allowing the bubble of our online hangouts to color perceptions too much. The big picture is usually much wider, much less exclusive, and much less angry, and it's really healthy to appreciate that, especially when a community starts piling on.
Actually, journalists interview these people.
That's why every single 'controversy' and news story ends up on every media site under the sun.
Plenty of journalists have experience in the fields they cover (check out the SCOTUSblog's publisher's bio, for example: http://www.scotusblog.com/author/tom-goldstein/) and the longer they cover a particular beat the more info they get about the field they're covering.
It states that whenever the press writes about something we know well, we scoff at how wrong they get it. Then we turn the page to a new story about something in which we lack expertise and believe every word of it.
[1] https://www.cjchilvers.com/blog/the-gell-mann-amnesia-effect