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I'm not normally one to be creeped out by these kind of things. But this is a device that's designed to take photos and videos of you while you get dressed, and will be both connected to the internet and constantly communicating those images over the network.

This feels like a device literature professors would use to teach dystopian fiction writing.

edit: case in point - matthewmcg's comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14203772

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what's worse: that amazon thought that enough people wouldn't care about an always-on, always-connected camera watching them get dressed (and undressed) every day, to make it a viable product ? ... or that _they might be right_ ?

This is basically a Nest Dropcam, and people seem to like those.

But isn't that for home security/checking in when you're not home?

The always-connected part is the steep price for that functionality.

Here the entire thing is designed around constantly uploading incriminating photos of you, without the value of home security.

On one hand the Dropcam is constantly uploading video and audio of you and storing it in the cloud for extended periods of time, even when you're home.

On the other hand, the Echo Look only uploads photos when you ask it to, and AFAIK doesn't store them, but everyone is freaking out because it could upload photos whenever it wants.

Sure, HN doesn't see the value in a Look, but it is clearly less invasive than a Dropcam.

It's only more invasive if you assume that things only do what they say on the tin.

No, because people typically either install nestcam outdoors or set it to turn it on when they are not at home. Also, I suppose very few people install Nestcams in the bedroom/bathroom/closet.

Is it any riskier than a cell phone or laptop computer with a camera?

It's not usually recording you while you are changing.

How do you know?

Amazon says their camera only records you when you ask it to, if you don't trust them, then how do you trust that your cellphone or laptop isn't recording you illicitly?

The point is that one doesn't usually purposefully keep our cameras directly pointed at us when we're changing clothes. Cellphones in particular are usually pointed at the table directly under them. Laptops are often more risky, which is why these exist: https://supporters.eff.org/shop/laptop-camera-cover-set

That's true. I was more saying that it's not usually pointed in my direction when I'm changing. I have a cover over my webcam and my phone is usually looking at the ceiling or whatever surface it's on.

How do I know my smart phone isn't shooting a video of me when I'm dressing? It isn't pointed at me. It doesn't sit on a stand with a view of the room. Sure the microphone might catch something interesting in the bedroom, but setting up an internet connected camera with a view is very different than than one that is pointed in a safe direction.

Firearms: never point it at something you don't want to destroy. Internet connected cameras: never point them at something you don't want the world to see.

You have my upvote for distilling my ambiguous worries into a catchphrase I can repeat to my friends and family.

I don't bring my phone with me when I'm going to shower or change clothes. If I do, I can place it face down and even place something on top of the rear camera if I'm afraid of capturing something other than my ceiling.

This Amazon device either needs to be left alone to capture/not capture whatever it is going to or it serves no purpose at all. I'm not going to turn it around or cover it every time I enter my bedroom. If I did, then the value proposition falls significantly.

It's not even an issue of trusting Amazon. Or, just trusting their motives. You also have to trust their security on an ongoing basis, as your device could theoretically be compromised at any time.

While this may be true, I'd trust Amazon more than the various Chinese camera makers that offer cloud connected streaming and storage. Heck, I'd trust them more than my own ability to secure a vulnerability-laden home router that AT&T manages and probably never patches.

>>if you don't trust them, then how do you trust that your cellphone or laptop isn't recording you illicitly?

I dont, and I dont trust them, I am one of "those people" that places tape over the lens. I also do not own an echo, nor will I own this or any device like it

I hate that Phone do not have removal batteries because there was a time where I did remove them.

Some may call be paranoid, but only the paranoid are ever truly prepared

Do you even use a phone with a front facing camera while sitting on toilet? I bet those pictures could be embarrassing too.

The products aren't exactly comparable in terms of utility. I get a whole lot more utility out of a cell phone or laptop then I would out of the amazon look. Even if both have security risks one has substantially greater rewards.

Anecdotally I don't have anything pointing at me while I change, regardless of who's watching it.

My phone at rest is either looking at the inside of my pocket or the ceiling/floor.

Then I'd bet you're not in the target market for a camera that can record you when you're trying on new outfits.

But if you were, I'd be willing to bet that you have a laptop in your bedroom or phone-cradle that can hold your phone in a position to record you so you can instagram today's outfit to your friends.

Even if you're "in the market" for this (and not everyone filmed will necessarily be a buyer - e.g. spouses, kids, etc), it's still riskier to have a camera always pointed at you when changing clothes than one you usually have to purposefully point at you.

Yes, for several reasons.

(1) This device is absolutely sealed and opaque. It can't (easily) be analyzed to see what it's running, doing, or sending. It's even more opaque than a phone. It has enough processing power to do local image analysis, object recognition, etc., so just looking at bulk traffic won't prove anything about whether or not it's watching.

(2) The camera in this device is part of its core functionality, is always on, and is situated deliberately so as to watch you.

(3) The device is literally an Amazon sales rep in your house. Its primary purpose is to represent Amazon and sell you stuff.

I've always thought Alexa and the other cloud-connected voice-activated things were completely insane. I will never own such a thing. Period. This takes it to a whole new level of creepiness.

Well, not completely opaque -- it uses your wifi network, so you can watch its traffic to see if it's sending streaming video back home without your permission. The stream should be encrypted, so you may not know exactly what it is sending back home, but you simple traffic analysis will tell you if it's sending video.

Having it being completely sealed without the ability of the end-user to install software is a security win for most people. Then it's much less likely that a user will install Malware on the device, and it's not likely that Amazon is going to hack their own devices to make them into spy cams. Not allowing user installed software greatly reduces the attack surface of the device.

> not likely that Amazon is going to hack their own devices to make them into spy cams

No, there's no way anyone would do that.....

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Parenting/pennsylvania-school-fbi-...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/2013/12/0...

https://it.slashdot.org/story/13/01/29/0111238/58000-securit...

Even if it wasn't intentional, unknown bugs are a thing, and trusting someone like amazon, who clearly does not have their customers best interests in mind, seems foolish to me.

simple traffic analysis will tell you if it's sending video

This is not super-useful; it could locally cache "bad" video and send it later when you think it is only sending "good" video.

What could go wrong?

Bad fashion advice?

It could recommend animal print. We are doomed.

Famous last words.

Just the first camera shot in that ad was already creepy as fuck.

Seriously, who thought the stalker sneaking around the door camera shot was a good idea?

My wife does this daily thing where she tries a pair of clothing, looks at herself in the mirror, sometimes ask my opinion, then change into complete different outfit, repeating the same process until she settles on what she would wear.

I swear, my wife would LOVE this product, unless I can scare her about the security implications.

didn't the XBOX also feature something similar to this? I could swear I saw demos where it took your picture and did fashion shows

There are Kinect-based 3rd Party fitting room applications, mostly used as demos at fashion shows it looks like from a quick search. There are also Kinect games that play with similar concepts, in the space of a game.

The Xbox itself has never had fashion/fitting advice as a feature.

> this is a device that's designed to take photos and videos of you while you get dressed, and will be both connected to the internet and constantly communicating those images over the network.

So, like a smartphone?

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