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Comment by ryandrake | Hacker News Reader

I consider myself reasonably outgoing, but I've always viewed "networking" as kind of slimy and insincere. At a fundamental level, population A has little to offer / little power and population B has a lot, and networking is the set of personal interactions that population A employs in order to have a shot at interacting/transacting with population B. The "hunter/hunted" relationship mentioned in this article is a key differentiator between networking and other forms of human interaction. All of the various tactics described in this article and others about effective networking just seem to boil down to pretty abstractions on top of that crass business logic. Convey genuine appreciation, listen with intent, blah blah blah--everyone doing the dance knows what the music is all about. Nobody is fooling anyone.

Networking is definitely a skill, I'll give you that, but it has the sincerity of a sales pitch.

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Here's an approach you might like.

Let's say you go to a tech meetup. Because of the abysmal state of social augmentation tech, there are likely many people there who could have a good conversation, but won't. Either because they never run into each other, or they talk without knowing they have some common interest. You're in a position to help them.

Assuming you're interested in people anyway, it's little extra work to explore what they're interested in, what difficulties they're encountering, and what they're looking for. And given that the population of such meetups are already filtered for common interests, my experience is you quickly hit "You know, I was talking with someone earlier who <matching interest>. Maybe you'd like to chat with them? Let's see, where... ah, over there, black shirt."

No long-term state. No wrestling with wretched CRM systems. Just interesting conversations, and knowing people likely had better outcomes because you were there.

And if you wish to, you also get lots of opportunity to help people towards greater clarity about what they want. "As I talk with people, sometimes I notice they're interested in the same thing, and I try to point them at each other. But I'm a little unclear on <some unclear aspect of what the person wants>."

I don't always do it. But for me, I find it makes many meetups more interesting.

>Networking is definitely a skill, I'll give you that, but it has the sincerity of a sales pitch.

I mostly agree but there are two different kinds of networking. The kind you are referring to is what I like to call "ball gargling". This is when someone is just trying to pitch how relevant they are to someone who doesn't really care so all kinds of lame sales tactics have to be used to keep interest.

Then there is networking with peers, which can be a pretty enjoyable experience. For example, meeting other researchers at an academic conference or meeting other developers at industry conferences. These connections might not provide an immediate return on investment, but they certainly seem to last longer and have proven to be immensely useful years down the road (at least anecdotally for me).

I generally get a slimy feeling whenever I interact with someone who is clearly applying some kind of rules of how to interact, make you feel comfortable and listened to, nodding at the right times and fake-laughing on cue, all the while I feel more and more uncomfortable and alienated. There are certain things you've either got or haven't got. You can't read a book to be good with people any more than to become a good comedian.

However, I would prefer that people at least be explicit about the fact they're doing such things. Then it's just process, and not fake and uncomfortable.

It's pretty much a gift that you're either born with or have to work your soul off to attain (not directly; more like "let life beat you up so bad that you find yourself humble and respectful").

I too dislike the people who poorly fake the techniques to win over people. My immediate subconscious reaction is:

"They have no other skills and they are desperate to increase their network. Do they have any real skills?"

I would argue you can network easily with others by simply having a genuine interest in what they are doing and what they have to tell you about it. Not a gift. Minimal skill required. Most people generally want to tell you all about what they are doing and it takes very little prompting other than genuine questions.

The gift you refer to is, to me, mostly being good at understanding and purposefully manipulating the emotional state of other people to achieve whatever goal you have.

I think we agree but we simply use different terms.

The gift I am referring to is actually being genuinely interested -- and this seems to be hard for many since they're too caught up doing only their own thing, and reacting violently or cynically in a very ugly manner <-- when advised to show genuine interest.

To understand and manipulate an emotional state is to me an acquirable skill.

Quite a funny opposite understanding we have. :) Do note, I am not gonna argue if either of us is right or wrong.

The "Be genuinely interested..." networking advice is like dating advice to "Be rich and good looking".

Not really. It means you have to be curious. You can't fake that.

Many people don't care about anything beyond their most direct activities. Such people are horrible at faking curiosity (and thus the genuine interest we're talking about).

This reminds me of the lessons in Give and Take by Adam Grant. There is almost a Zen aspect of sincere networking. The more your end goal is to simply network with others and increase your network the less sincere you are likely to operate. However if you go to an event or gathering with a genuine curiosity and freely listen to others with no expectation of return and develop an ability to actually care (in that moment, at least, but really more deeply) your network will easily grow. Events and conversations have often led to cool places when I have interacted with others with no expectation of return.

Grant would just say you are acting as a Giver in the social context. This is very powerful and people react to it. A lot of people get good at purposefully faking being a Giver, precisely because your sole intention is to manipulate with forethought about how you can come out ahead (take) or at least come out equal to others in a social setting. Pure takers are honestly a little creepy because it shows a rather high level of self focus that (in my experience) tends to make someone a negative.

Most of the books (Dale Carnegie etc) actually tell you not to do those things. Genuinely listen to people, be honest, don't fake interest or anything else.

That you are "born with it" may apply at the level of high-level national politics or something like that, but for most of us, it's just another skill and the books are helpful.

> There are certain things you've either got or haven't got. You can't read a book to be good with people any more than to become a good comedian.

Reading a math textbook doesn't make you a good mathematician either. It takes practice too, and we should be charitable of others who are perhaps trying to practice and improve their skills, no matter the subject.

I once traveled to a conference with my PhD supervisor, and I confessed how slimy networking was making me uncomfortable. He said, without any irony: 'you're not here to network, you're here to make friends!'

Treating it that way, just be honest about what I do, what they do etc. definitely helped me make a bunch of friends, if they're useful for my career it's an added bonus.

(If you're a supervisor reading this: please make sure that if you're at a thing with your students, take pains to go around and introduce them to as many people as you can, it helps tremendously)

His whole point is the only "bad" networking has no sincerity. In "Good" networking you have to sincerely want to make a real connection to the other person. Its not just a does this person help me, its a how can I help this person.

This is definitely true for some people at some events. But it's entirely possible to make genuine and more personal interactions beyond the surface level. You just have to be genuine yourself. I have a pretty positive view on networking:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13961069

I always like comments where people are critical of a "sales pitch" while ignoring the fact that such an aCT exists because it communicates value and provides a person with info they need. In other words, sales pitches work.

So does networking...when done properly.

I think part of it is that only a bad sales pitch really comes off as a sales pitch to begin with. A good one feels like a helpful recommendation. Networking is similar--good networking feels like making friends, not something transactional. So when people think of sales or networking and get the creeps, it's because they're mainly remembering all the bad examples.

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