The Rich Are Living Longer and Taking More From Taxpayers
bloomberg.com
bloomberg.com
For those who have earned very little income over their lifetime, they are eligible for benefits through the SSI program, which one does not have to pay for. However, you may not be eligible for SSI if you have too many assets (e.g. saved money, a 2nd car). The problem is that the cutoff of SSI based upon assets has not been raised since 1989. You're only allowed to have no more than $2,000 in savings, basically requiring the applicant to be completely destitute before becoming eligible. In my personal opinion, this amount needs to be drastically updated to match modern cost-of-living standards. This program is far too out-of-reach for those merely dipping their feet in poverty.
The headline makes that claim, but the article's figures do not support the claim.
I'm not sure that it actually helps anything to cast it in the cart-before-horse way the article does.
According to the institute’s data, a two-earner couple receiving an average wage — $44,600 per spouse in 2012 dollars — and turning 65 in 2010 would have paid $722,000 into Social Security and Medicare and can be expected to take out $966,000 in benefits. So, this couple will be paid about one-third more in benefits than they paid in taxes.
Some types of families did much better than average. A couple with only one spouse working (and receiving the same average wage) would have paid in $361,000 if they turned 65 in 2010, but can expect to get back $854,000 — more than double what they paid in. In 1980, this same 65-year-old couple would have received five times more than what they paid in, while in 1960, such a couple would have ended up with 14 times what they put in.
Such findings suggest that, even allowing for inflation and investment gains, many seniors will receive much more in benefits than what they paid in.
As for how its used by retirees today and in the past, would anyone sell stock that is paying insane an unsustainable dividends? Would you blame the investor or the company? Even if its compulsory to buy?
You absolutely can opt out by choosing to exclude employers that are either mandated, or who have chosen despite not being mandated, to participate in SS. Or by choosing to live by some means other than wage-labor (if you make all your income from capital investments, you have successfully opted out of SS.) No one is coercing you to the contrary (well, except the coercion to wage-labor that affects most of the population under capitalism and which has not generally been eliminated in modern mixed economies; but even there there are some wage-labor options outside of the Social Security mandate.)
To the extent capitalism isn't slavery they absolutely are.
We can, of course, debate the extent to which capitalism is or isn't slavery.
Of course, again, you can still opt-out of Social Security within the wage-labor economy, it just narrows your choices of acceptable employment opportunities. [0]
[0] http://finance.zacks.com/groups-not-pay-social-security-syst...
You pay me $722,000 over the next 50 years, then from years 51-??? (70? 80?) I pay you the equivalent of $966,000.
I would not have to get a very high rate of return to end up better than that. Eyeballing it, the payments from the first 10 years alone, at a return of around 4% or 5%, would cover all of my outlays at the end. That's a sweet deal.
It looks like they accounted for inflation somewhat ("...in 2012 dollars"), but even returns modestly beating inflation would turn out a much bigger winner.
The bigger problem is that the govt. is not investing that money like I would if I took the bet.
I think our progressive tax system (for example) strikes a lot of people as being the same - giving some people a "free ride", but what is the alternative? The money that makes many rich people rich filters up from the millions of poor and middle class people that spend 99% of their income directly on goods and services. If you own restaurant chains, stores, factories, and/or are invested in all of those things, you benefit from the spending of the rest of the nation.
It may seem counter intuitive, or maybe its just ideologically disgusting (if you believe everyone is entirely self-made that is), but a less progressive system could ultimately harm the upper class. If the lower and middle classes don't have money to spend, our economy does not do well and given that a large amount of our wealth is tied up in financial products the last thing the rich really want is for the whole system to grind to a halt.
EDIT: I think I did misinterpret something. When you account for taxes paid, I think it is still well on the progressive side, rather than being even. May be moreso in the future, because it's pay-as-you-go.
My broader point was that a lack of modernization in how benefits are earned and paid out are reducing the payouts over-time for some of the poorest recipients of these sorts of programs. Giving subsistence income to the destitute helps to a point, but doesn't go far enough to really elevate one's standard of living to one which substantially increases health and reduces stress. Someone earning only $900/month probably isn't going to pay $100 for blood work and an x-ray as often as they should.
SSDI is Social Security Disability Insurance, which part of Social Security but not the same as Social Security (the main part is the Old Age and Survivors part); if you need an abbreviariation for the whole thing, I guess you could use the OASDI that typically appears on paystubs.
> When you retire or become disabled, the amount of benefits you are eligible for is related to the amount you pay in, which is a percentage of your income.
The annual benefits are calculated like that, but rich people also—as even the title of the source article here ("The Rich Are Living Longer and Taking More From Taxpayers") points out—live longer, making their total benefits higher compared to their share of contributions than looking at annual benefit calculations would suggest, and the life expectancy gap is growing, increase the relative share of benefits going to wealthier beneficiaries.
There is certainly a very valid separate point to be made about how in the US wealth leads to longer/healthier lives and we definitely need to think about how to fix that, but putting it in terms of receiving more social security feels disingenuous to me.
Details here: http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/economy-budget/204996... and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Wage_Base
People making that are doing pretty well in relative terms.
I guess the cutoff for 'wealthy' is often higher than that though.
The feature that does make social security progressive it's the diminishing contribution to benefit ratio a lifetime contributions increase.
Given that, sure, the top 7% or 1% or the 0.1% don't fund SS proportionately (but they also do not receive higher benefits than the people at exactly $127,000).
The article isn't really talking about the 0.1% or 1%, though, which is a tiny portion of SS payouts, but instead the top 20% or 40% (top quintiles).
The first pays $3500 per year in SS tax, the second pays $8750, and the third $8750. But each one gets the same SS benefit (assuming same number of working quarters and lifespan).
You are right about tax rates, but those rates don't affect the benefit.
The article makes the point that lifespans are not equal, which tilts the SS program in the regressive direction. But (unless I misread the numbers), SS is still a progressive system overall.
I could swear that it didn't work that way before -- did somethibg change?
Personally (and I realize this goes against a lot of the HN values here), I'd like to see some form of reduced benefit paid out if people are already earning income. If social security guaranteed a minimum monthly income, but didn't pay out what you were already making in other income, it would both help to maintain solvency of the program, and also encourage older folks to retire and make more room for younger people to move up in the workforce. The big problem with that approach is I imagine it would probably cost more to police than it would save, and there are likely some unforeseen consequences to the way it would encourage people to act.
We do that without complicating benefit calculation by way of income taxes. It might be desirable to redirect the additional income tax resulting from that policy back into the OAS trust fund rather than the general fund, though.
https://faq.ssa.gov/link/portal/34011/34019/article/3831/mus...
Social security is taxed on individual income, so you shouldn't look at this like a household income figure.
If you use the traditional capitalist-economy "middle class" (the petit bourgeoisie who live primarily by applying their own labor to their own capital, rather than doing wage-labor for a capitalist or being a capitalist that rents labor rather than supplying it), I actually don't think that's unreasonable.
If you use "middle class" to mean the middle income segment of the working class, then, sure, it seems weird.
This graph shows a roughly flat benefits-less-revenue per quintile, but is still disingenuous because it ignores revenue from under age 50. Social security payouts start as early as 62 — so this only factors in 12-20 working years and ignores the first 28-32 working years. I would guess the higher quintiles at 50 also paid more in Social Security taxes during their younger working years.
I suspect a lifetime graph of benefits less revenue would show the system is still progressive, if not as progressive as it was 30 years ago.
Either way — the headline statement, "Wealthy Americans Consumer Disproportionately More Social Security," is false.
That's not what the article is saying. According to the table it gives, the life expectancy of the bottom 20% is still 76.1 years. That's not "young". It is significantly younger than the top 20%.
> wealth inequality is pretty important in terms of quality of life
I think it's hard to make this case just based on life expectancy; what we really need is some way of quantifying how healthy the bottom 20% are from, say, age 60 on (or even earlier), compared to the top 20%. I suspect that this would show a much larger disparity than just the life expectancy data.
It's also worth considering that the lowest 20% is much more likely to encounter violent crime, and also more likely to enlist in the military. I'm sure those things play into lower life expectancy as well.
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-are-poor-americans-dyi...
As for how socioeconomic inequalities translate into inequities in life span, “It’s rather mysterious,” said Lisa Berkman, the director of the Center for Population and Development Studies at Harvard University. One answer is that low-income people tend to be sicker in the first place, because the neighborhoods they can afford to live in are more polluted; because they can’t afford to adopt and maintain healthy behaviors; because they can’t afford health insurance premiums, copayments, and prescription drugs.
Woolf accounts much of the disparity in death rates to what he calls “stress-related conditions.” People who aren’t secure economically are likely to experience high levels of stress, which studies have linked to shorter lifespans and a heightened risk of death from strokes, heart attacks, and other illnesses. “We’re seeing a dramatic increase in deaths from opioids, whether we’re talking about prescription painkiller or heroin, but also from suicides, liver disease, and other conditions that I personally feel come from different ways that people are coping, in an unhealthy way, with the stresses that they’re facing in their daily lives,” Woolf said, particularly since the recession. Smoking, the leading cause of preventable death, takes a particularly costly toll on low-income people.
Berkman traces at least some of the stress load on lower-income Americans to changes in the workplace. The 1920s cohort analyzed by the Brookings researchers had their greatest earnings in the 40s and 50s, a time of economic growth and greater equality across the income spectrum. While low-income people born in the 1940s entered a labor market that was less demanding physically, they may also have experienced greater insecurity as wages stagnated, and difficulty balancing work and family life as more women entered the workforce. Unlike many other peer countries with more robust family support, the United States didn’t do much to accommodate the increased challenges facing working parents, Berkman noted. “The second wave of occupational risk are sets of working conditions that are hugely stressful,” she said. “They aren’t so physically stressful, but they’re socially stressful. They’re insecure, they’re inflexible, or they have no ability to balance work and family issues. We need to rethink what occupational health and safety is.”
OTOH, the current high-end contribution impact may be low enough that you don't; certainly a debate can be had on that.
SS benefits are a really bad deal for those who would otherwise save. [2]
Ergo, forcing the wealthy to participate in Social Security benefits the rest of us at their expense.
[1] https://www.aei.org/publication/cbo-study-shows-that-the-ric...
[2] http://www.reuters.com/article/us-column-miller-socialsecuri...
With some massive assumptions (that I can enumerate if anyone is interested), the Bottom 20% quintile gets a 6.5% IRR on lifetime benefits vs. contributions. The Top 20%, by comparison, gets a 1.7% IRR. So despite "the rich taking more", the system is still very progressive. Just, perhaps, not quite as progressive as it used to be—but certainly not "proportionate" or "disproportionate" in favor of the wealth.
To give you a sense, had a Top 20%-er turning 65 in 2016 invested his or her SS contributions over the years in a Dow Jones Index Fund, the value of their investment would be $1.1M... versus the $290k lifetime benefit they would receive from the government. (It's pretty much a wash for a Bottom 20%-er: their DJI investment would be worth $136k vs. $130k in SS Lifetime Benefits).
[1] https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/113th-congress-2013-...
The racial disparity in life expectancy is bad on its own, but has a financial impact here.
(And women live longer, plus often end up with a superior amount of SS to what they've earned themselves due to spousal benefit, including survivor benefit. That is one of the overt goals of the system, though, and probably broadly supported.)
The point being that we are missing the bigger picture - the massive bulk of the money is going to the rich and we need to fix that problem. Then there will be plenty of money for Social Security - and it will be possible to fix it.
What "the money?" Are you talking income, earnings, government payout, overall wealth?
Your argument goes to crap really quickly unless you're specifying where the problem is originating from...
You're not offering any advice at all.
"THE MONEY" ≠ Wealth ≠ Income. They are separate, unique things. You need to acknowledge the differences before you can have a useful discussion.
Unless, of course, you're just mad that some people have a lot of money. In which case, you can just yell about some people having "ALL THE MONEY" and not actually work towards a solution.
This article is sensationalist click-baity crap that wants to paint a picture where the rich somehow feed off the poor.
[1]: http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/04/13/high-income-...
"Eight in 10 Americans think Social Security has been good for the country, with 70 percent of young adults agreeing and almost nine in 10 senior citizens saying the same."
http://www.politico.com/story/2011/09/poll-social-security-s...
Http://skilesare.github.com/immortality
Its a long term solution and doesn't fix the immediate problems.
The TL;DR point of the article is that the rich live longer, thus collecting far more SS benefits than the less wealthy percentiles.
Yes, accounting for the fact that they pay more into it.