Your startup will be more successful if you have fun & forget about getting rich | Hacker News Reader

Your startup will be more successful if you have fun & forget about getting rich

startup-marketing.com

69 pointsdchs31 comments

If you're only interested in having fun, you run the risk of building something really cool that nobody needs.

That's not really untrue of doing it to get rich, though.

Agreed, but if you're not paying attention to the bottom line, it's easier to go down a rabbit hole instead of pivoting.

Actually, I'd really argue that if you're obsessed with EFFECTIVE action (which is necessary to make money), you are much more likely to realize that what you're doing may be fun but will never be a product people will pay for.

Good point. Still the critical point of the article is that obsessing on getting rich is more likely to lead to failure. Staying loose and having fun is more conducive to creatively solving customer needs. Solve customer needs and you'll probably make a lot of money. Focus on getting rich and you probably won't make any money.

I still don't see what "having fun" has to do with "solving customer needs": often customer needs are boring, esoteric, poorly-specified, and technically uninteresting -- exactly the opposite of the sort of thing you'd do to "have fun".

Solving customer needs takes creativity. If you are having fun, you are more creative.

Creativity is often the result of great adversity. But in a roundabout way, you're right (but probably not in the way you think). See, by having fun, you're wasting time you should be spending solving the problem. Then just before the deadline, you miraculously solve the problem. Your fun beget your laziness,which beget your desperation,which beget your creativity.

Fun might be the wrong word. My key point is that you'll be more productive and effective if you are loose and enjoying the process.

Dave Snowden has a theory that innovation is triggered by starvation of resources, time pressure for a result, and a shift in perspective. See http://www.cognitive-edge.com/blogs/dave/2006/10/culture_and... where he makes the point

   Creativity is just one way, and not necessarily the most    
   effective to achieve perspective shift.  In fact I am increasingly 
   of the opinion that creativity is not a cause of innovation, 
   but a property of innovation processes, its something that 
   you can use as evidence of innovation, but not to create it.

He has some interesting short videos up on http://www.youtube.com/user/CognitiveEdge that address innovation issues.

This might be true, but coming up with solutions to customer needs is a very small part of making software. Most of the day is filled with programming, i.e. translating your vision into actual software.

Except that if you're having fun, you will ignore things that are not fun at all, like figuring out how you're going to make money.

There's always some code that could be rewritten instead.

You will, otherwise you won't have any more fun because you ran out of money.

Nope, that doesn't stop lots of people. Ever heard of Duke Nukem Forever? Or any of the people here on HN who talk about their social network for dogs-type startups.

Or risk never releasing a finished version.

I've spent 8 of the last 9 months having great fun writing an app. A month ago, I realised if I kept having so much fun, I'd never release!

Solution: have fun making money.

This is actually a problem with most startups. They don't concentrate on something that's a viable business and fail within a year or two. I don't necessarily want to become rich. I just want to have a business where I have enough money for me (and anyone else involved in the company) to live comfortably and most importantly, not have to go back to a day job.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_business

You get significantly diminishing margin returns (where utility=happiness) after 100k/yr income.

* 100k adjusted to local costs & salaries.

I disagree. I think that is a very linear view of (money = happiness) and it doesn't include the 'real life' factor.

Reality = Stay-at-home Wife. Kids. Education. Retirement Goals. et. al.

Am I confused? That's the whole point. (Money, happiness) correlation is only linear to an extent.

Sean is absolutely right on. Too many people think a "fun" culture means Xboxes, free drinks and fooze-ball or a really "fun" cool market space. That's a mistake. I don't think that's the fun Sean is talking about. I think that for creative people - esp. developers and product people - it is intrinsically fun to simply build something awesome, even in a less than "fun" space. The main reward is real people loving your awesome creation because you've solved their problem. I've found that even talking about the money can be de-motivating because it makes the problem solving feel less pure, more instrumental, less meaningful. Nothing is more fun or sustaining in the tough times than a simple email from a user saying "I love your product, thanks!". When the team lives for that, you've got a great team.

You said it much better than I did. Totally agree.

thanks! As an aside, i notice that these types of observations quickly devolve into a reductio ad absurdum of "but money really counts" or "but you like money". The answer is: of course. People are complicated and have multiple motivations - team and individual motivation is not "either/or"... it's complicated!

The article says:

"When breakthrough thinking is needed, a fun, collaborative and supportive environment will generally yield better/faster results than the pressure of sticks and carrots. This is especially important in the early days of a startup while the team is still figuring out a viable formula for the business."

But it's assuming there is already a startup company that you've founded.

I'm currently going through the agonizing process of filing for an S-Corp and setting up all the other legal structure to found a startup. Are there really people who would get a couple friends together and file all that paper work and pay all those fees then sit down and think "Hmm.. okay. Now what should we sell?"

Even if you just have an idea for a fun product, if you aren't monetarily focused, I have no idea how you would get yourself through the whole process without considering a "viable business formula."

it must be different for your state, here all we do is fill out a form, and that's it...you get your paperwork a few days later in the mail.

then one day to hit up the bank to open up the account

I am in CA, and trying to incorporate in NV. So I need to get a registered agent in NV. Also, my cofounders are in different states and we're not paying straight dividends for other reasons. Then there are the pains of having a lawyer to craft our T&C.

By coincidence (though I don't think it is coincidence) Jeff Atwood's latest blog post at Coding Horror, "The Vast and Endless Sea" (http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/2010/06/the-vast-and-endles...) is about the same thing: how offering lots of money is detrimental for creativity and motivation.

I agree with his recommendation at the end: watch the 10 minute video "RSA Animate - Drive: The surprising truth about what motivates us".

Yeah, is not about making money at all, it's about have fun and then sell all that fun for millions :)

My thought on any startup to be successful, they must be stay relevant to its users. Sure it won't hurt to have a bit of fun along the way. I'm sure if it help users in its course of work, there will be users who are willingly to pay a bit of $$$.

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