Many now have their own businesses (one is a plasterer, another a builder) and they earn good money, own their own homes, and have no student debt.
The reason? They had supportive parents. Many of the people who are falling into despair tragically come from very broken families.
Housing rising in cost is only dog piling on and exacerbating the issue.
Look at the trends of the past few decades: divorce; single parent; and dual income households. There is in fact remarkedly less two parent, supported by single income households, meaning it's a rareity for a child to simply have a parent at home when they return from school to fix them a healthy snack, ask how their day was, or help with homework. Certainly it's not a single cause, but stability in the home is indisputably tied to mental well being of the child.
The rate of change is the rate of new divorces minus the rate at which divorcee households are ending (if the concern is divorced parents with children, by death of the parent, child, or the child leaving the household.)
> Even if the divorce rate was zero, there would still be existent divorced households.
A declining, eventually to zero, number of them.
I was instead pointing out that simply bring up a reduced rate is not really a counterpoint. Especially when, as you accurately point out, the divorce rate is not even the entire picture for the rate-of-change of divorced households. See also Arizhel's sibling comment:
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14150694
But hey, will_brown did a better job of making the same point and defending himself:
Yes if you ignore overall trends and use a simple snapshot today divorce rates are slightly lower than the alltime high in 1980. To my larger point, in 1960 9% of kids lived in single parent homes, that number today is 36% and as high as 72% in a certain demographic.
Look all these 'you can make it other parts of the system, I know someone who had a disadvantage and went onto a great success' is nice, but it's also platitudinous. It's a way of saying 'I don't want to deal with your problems.' Yes, there are successful people who didn't finish school or had learning difficulties, but they often had other advantages or had the good luck to grow up in a time or region where there was greater economic opportunity and fewer barriers to entry.
Someone who can't handle very basic things like multiplication tables is structurally fucked, to put it bluntly. That's more than not being good at math or not being bookish, that's not being able to work out the relationship between the stuff in your grocery cart, the bill, and the amount of money left in your bank account. And not in a way that you can you screw up a few times and then get the hang of, but possibly permanently and unalterably barring major advances in our understanding of the brain, which I guarantee you will go to poor and disabled people last rather than first.
That level of disability falls far short of normal adult competence and raises serious questions about whether the individual will ever achieve economic independence. People who are not very competent or who are incapable of financial independence are systematically treated like shit in this society and generally forced into the humiliation of relying on charity, which is inherently unpredictable and unreliable and antithetical to any kind of long-term stability.
I apologize for putting this so bluntly as it will be painful to read for the gp, but we need to acknowledge the reality of these problems rather than wish them away with a fairy-tale about enterprise and a can-do attitude. Life outcomes are more than simply a matter of high or low expectations, and insisting that everything stems from the expectations one has of someone's potential is an implicit abdication of responsibility for dealing with tricky social problems through public policy.
All these examples of being a plumber, electrician, or similar skilled tradesperson - which are often trotted out on HN - are basically restatements of what the various posters would do if you told them they had to work some sort of manual job. How the hell is someone who can't do multiplication at age 15 and has trouble putting a sentence together going to succeed as a plumber or electrician? Would you trust your home's electrical wiring to someone who can't work out Ohm's law to figure out what sort of fuse you need, or trust your plumbing to someone who won't be able to remember what sort of pipe to use for what purpose? Of course you won't, you hire a tradesperson because you assume they're certified and competent to work with sometimes-dangerous tools and procedures.
A person like that described in the gp may have many qualities, but intellectual disabilities like that are going to bar them from any sort of safety-critical work that might pay well. The friend that I mentioned at the top of this post has the intellectual and emotional development of a 9 or 10 year old. She's already a legal adult and her capacities are unlikely to improve significantly. That doesn't mean the world is a closed book to her or that she will never be able to develop herself, but it does impose a pretty solid ceiling on her economic prospects because there ain't a whole lot of jobs for adult-sized 10 year olds with personality problems. She wants to be a videogame character artist and I give her help and encouragement with anything that might advance that goal, but we're talking about someone who can't handle a busy shift at a Taco Bell and spends several weeks of every year in a secure psychiatric unit. She's almost certainly not going to go on to enjoy the rewarding careers people are talking about here, but very likely to end up homeless or in jail.
These are problems that we need to start talking about instead of wishing away because there are a lot of people who have a lot of problems, nothing much to lose, and little motivation to keep trying in a society that treats them as dispensable or ignores their existence altogether.
What do you think, realistically, are the options available here?
In full fairness, here's where I'm coming from with this question: You talk repeatedly of a "problem" that society needs to "talk about" instead of "wishing away". But I'm not sure what to even consider, if we are discussing people with disabilities severe enough that they cannot function independently. And if independent living is not a solution, then the only other solution I see is long-term supervised living. And, AFAIK, this is something already provided through disability-based Social Security and Medicare.
Apraxia is a motor disorder caused by damage to the brain
(specifically the posterior parietal cortex), in which the
individual has difficulty with the motor planning to
perform tasks or movements when asked, provided that the
request or command is understood and he/she is willing to
perform the task.
I'm sure he would do great as a tradesman.I find it borderline condescending that so many comments below are just handwaving this as "he should just be a plumber!" as if plumbers don't need to take training classes or remember specific technical details. If you're reading this thread and wondering why manual trades are undervalued in the US and also suggesting gp's son become an electrician, you're part of the problem.
>despite putting forth his best effort because he simply can't remember anything
Acting like this person should apprentice as a programmer as some have suggested is wishing the problem away.
The #1 challenge is quality - as a parent, you'd have to be and stay involved, as even within a single organization, the quality of each "house" can vary really significantly based on the people who work there, and further, can drift over time as the staff evolves.
Anyway, here's to you; parenting is never easy.
edit: grammar
An apprenticeship might just be right up his alley, but I'm not sure how available that is in the US.
That being said, its a mature industry and not highly regarded in the US as it is a "blue collar" job. Stigmatizing & devaluing an honest days work is ridiculous to me, but that is what our society has done to these jobs.
I don't think we should discourage trades, but we can't sugar coat them either. I used to work as a mechanic and never met one that was 65 (the SS retirement age). The safety nets in place are optimized for people who work office jobs, not manual jobs.
I was an officer and platoon leader in the Army, the endgame for a lot of my soldiers was to use their GI Bill benefits to get to trade school and then become an apprentice in a union. They considered making it in one of the sought-after trades really "making it."
If you've ever hired an electrician in the Bay Area, btw -- let me tell you, these guys are doing pretty well for themselves.
"Such work in Athens had not become so complicated as it is today, when the intelligence demanded in many manual trades is at times much greater than that required for the operations of the lower middle class, and even a college professor may look upon an automobile mechanic (in certain exigencies) as a very god"
Many require some sort of apprenticeship. The post is on the Mr. Money Mustache website, which is site dedicated to helping people lead happier lives that are less dependent on having lots of money and lots of "things". This idea runs pretty much against everything in a capitalist society, where consumption is encouraged and status is largely based on how much money you have. But you can live a good life with much less if you work to rid yourself of some of the harmful ideas that become ingrained in us as we grow up and live in this sort of society.
Even La Fin du Monde from Unibroue is $8 on draft at the Toronado on Haight... if you're into that kind of thing.
That being said, people I know in Turkey were wholly unwilling to go to the US to work, they'd rather wait 2 or 3 years for their company to send them to work in Europe due to the political climate and laws in the US. That was under Obama tho, I'd be surprised if it hadn't degraded since then.
There are a plenty of things that play into decisions like these:
1. 100K/year doesn't necessarily mean you get some fixed income every month. Not everyone enjoys that kind of a lifestyle.
2. Feeling of doing a lesser intellectually involving work.
3. Perennial threat of facing impending dilution in wages, as you are working in a area where people have a lower barrier to entry.
4. Other social respect problems. You likely won't get as much attention in your circles as some one is who working at Google.
Many other things...
By and large you will still be better off with a job that pays you a fixed income every month.
The reason I say I'm on the outside looking in is because doing any job that requires the ability to use both hands was never an option for me.
But when the business isn't successful, the resentment builds on both sides. Blue-collar trades are not considered societally desirable and working in the parents' business or career some interpret as a lack of ambition. These factors combine with geography to greatly affect the dating pool for such people, further restricting an avenue of social mobility whose availability was more widespread historically.
What contexts are we talking about for the regard afforded different occupations? Other parents at a school, former classmates at a reunion, talking to a stranger at a bar? what kind of bar? Making money, and being handy and able to work with your hands impresses people. Imagine telling someone in a bar that you are a contractor, plumber, fisherman, fireman, or lumberjack or telling someone that you do tech support at a call center.
Different people are simply going to think one job is cooler than the other, so his son should just choose the occupation that gives him the best life and ignore those who don't regard it highly.
I have no idea how we got to this point. It's even more absurd because you call these people because you didn't know how, didn't want to learn, or didn't want to do a job _yourself_.
It's absurd; I honestly feel guilty about being a software engineer with a cushy job making high-end of average for the area when I feel like I do nothing at all. I type some stuff, other people are happy, I get money. I get it, it took a lot of time to figure out what to type in the best way, but it took the electrician I hired to rewire my house a while to learn the regs and best practices, and after spending 5 minutes in my attic in the summer did not envy his job of running cable up to it and then out to all the rooms upstairs, whereas I just sit on a porch swing or at my desk or on my couch while I work.
Of course, this was a different time, but I believe the principle is valid. If you have confidence, charm, and enterprising spirit, the world is open despite any particular individual limitations.
The white-collar career path of collegiate education is not the only option, and as many upset Millennials are discovering, it's often not even a good option anymore.
An illiterate black person had almost no chance to have a successful life.
> If you have confidence, charm, and enterprising spirit, the world is open despite any particular individual limitations.
THAT is white privilege. You must understand that the world is simply NOT open to black people this way. Not at all.
clearly this is not the same thing.
http://study.com/welding_education.html
If the OP's child can not multiply, or follow ordered operations, it may be a huge stretch to to follow welding step-by-step assembly instructions.
The higher level welding certifications have chemistry and physics knowledge requirements.
http://www.aws.org/library/doclib/CWEng-bok.pdf
Source: Dad welds and has attempted to teach me. Only marginally interested :)