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Comment by kinkrtyavimoodh | Hacker News Reader

A major issue with a lot of vegetarian / vegan diets is that they try to create vegetarian / vegan versions of what are fundamentally non-veg foods. This always ends up with people finding the veg version of something just an inferior tasting version of the 'actual' thing deprived of its primary component (the meat) and seasoned with some moral righteousness.

Instead of this, people should try to design these dishes ground up, and look at vegetarian cuisines around the world (Indian would be a great place to start) for inspiration.

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As an omnivore, nothing annoys me more than my well intentioned veggie friends trying to serve me the vegie version of everything. It's gross to me, and it represents what they are trying to distance yourself from. Its like christian rock. It makes both things worse, while attempting in good faith, to celebrate them. Just cook kickass food that tastes good and meets your needs.

Edit: just reread, and I sound dickish. I, of course, am flattered by their attempt at accomidation. But veggie bacon is bad, and someone needs to tell you. We still love you.

I agree mostly, but you specifically mention veggie bacon (theres probably many kinds but what I like is rice paper cut and seasoned like bacon) and that thing specifically rock! I have more non-vegan family members and friends that have asked for the recipe after tasting it than anything else. It's also a lot cheaper, a lot healthier and as crunchy as you'd like it.

I used to feel the same way before I went vegan. I don't try to push substitutes on non-vegans because I know their palettes aren't adjusted, but if I want to make a BLT, I have no choice but to use veggie-bacon. The rest of the sandwich is already vegan.

Most vegans aren't really trying to distance themselves from non-vegan foods, just the unfortunate consequences of producing those foods. Most vegans don't have a problem with pepperoni pizza, for example. Just the source of the pepperoni (and cheese.)

> But veggie bacon is bad

One thing to keep in mind is that many vegan substitutes can vary greatly in quality / flavour. For example, discounting all vegan cheeses because you tried one doesn't really work because they are all using different methods to achieve the same end, so the result (flavour, taste, texture) is different.

It's not like dairy cheese which is all basically using the same method / ingredients (and therefore the results can be more consistently close together, even among variations on the theme).

I have a strong stomach but the vegan cheese I've tried brought me to the brink of illness because it was so gross. Maybe I could have enjoyed it if it didn't present itself as "cheese" - like an uncanny valley effect. Cheese is one of the main reasons I fell of the vegan wagon. Can you recommend any cheeze that's palatable?

I've been vegan for half my life at this point, so take my recommendations with a grain of salt (I have no idea what cheese tastes like any more).

That said - there are several brands of nut cheeses that I really enjoy, whether or not they taste like actual cheese. I would recommend Dr. Cow, Treeline, Punk Rawk Labs and Miyokos nut cheeses.

Just tell them. Most of them would be proud and happy to show you what good veg* cuisine looks like but they are worried to be judged and are feeling horribly guilty about the (largely false) sense that they constantly inconvenience others so want to do anything to avoid disappointing :-)

Regarding the Christian Rock, assuming I correctly understand what you mean, I disagree.

Well, I haven't checked all that many bands (maybe the majority is not as good as what I've listened to? ), but Switchfoot is good.

I'm not vegan, but I have an astounding vegan cookbook that I bought because all the dishes in it are based on your comment. There's no "now add vegan butter" steps or "take 1 vegan hotdog" recipes. It's all about how to make really tasty food with just vegan ingredients. Probably the best cookbook I own, at least in terms of the food that comes out of it.

Would you mind sharing the name?

I'm a different person, but I know lots of vegans and non-vegans who love 'Thug Kitchen'. I also really like 'The Plant-Powered Way'.

I'm also a different person, but I have found tremendous utility in Moosewood Restaurant Favorites. It's vegetarian, but a lot of recipes are vegan. My wife and I are low-meat omnivores (she additionally avoids dairy) and we cook from this book several times a week.

Another different person, but I've enjoyed a lot of recipes from "Vegetarian cooking for everyone".

Or perhaps I should just eat what I like. I can make chili (a soup) with beans and no meat. But I rather like the soy crumbles, and I'll put them in. I like quorn, a meat substitute, and use it to make different versions of stuff. Some things just have no meat. You don't need to eat it.

Some of the substitutes are absolutely horrible and folks tend to forget that they need to spice the food slightly differently and make up for some of the actual meat flavors.

The dodgiest part of any curry is where the meat came from. So when you cut that out you get lovely curries without any lingering doubts.

Vegetarian for 12+ years. I happily eat quorn or other good veggie substitutes as long as they are healthy (ish) and taste good. Being vegetarian doesnt mean i have to give up on the good elements of the food industry/convenience. I'd probably also eat lab grown meat but I'm not sure as i didn't have a chance to try yet.

For me it's an ethical argument to be vegetarian, i still love the taste and smell of meat (but contrary to the cliché repeated in this thread have never lapsed) - why give up on it completely if i can get something similar that allows me to still enjoy a bbq or spaghetti Bolognese. Most veggie substitutes taste like crap though - but that's a matter of trial and error (my advice is to avoid any veggiemeat that's egg based, they all taste disgusting and probably come out of the horribly cruel egg mass production.)

I'd be vegan but with small kids, a non-veg partner and an area that's not very veggie friendly that will have to wait a bit longer.

As a vegetarian, I find meat substitutes to be disgusting. I would imagine that a big part of the reason people have trouble sticking to a vegetarian diet is that they lean heavily on meat substitutes instead of going out of their way to find recipes that aren't built around meat.

Ive eaten plenty of this type of dish that were fantastic. Your suggestion seems just as wrong to me as the alternative: unnecessarily constraining yourself to only traditionally vegetarian cuisines means missing out on flavors and cuisines that could easily accommodate vegetarianism with minor tweaks.

I don't see how my suggestion is constraining anyone. If anything, it's liberating them.

All I am saying is that culinary traditions around the world have slowly evolved dishes around the ingredients and dietary constraints they had available to them, and it's useful to learn from them to see what all can be done with a particular set of ingredients.

This is more liberating (you have the whole world's culinary experience to pick from) rather than constraining yourself to eating regular meat dishes with the meat part subbed with tofu.

For instance, most American food just does not treat vegetables fairly. In a lot of cases, the meat is the center of the dish while veggies, well, they are just served boiled as a side or raw as a salad. If you go vegan and take the meat out of the dish, you are basically left with bland vegetables. No wonder 'recidivism' rates are high. Now go to any Indian or Thai or (even Chinese in some cases) restaurant and see what they do with vegetables.

I was responding specifically to your suggestion that "instead" of finding twists on dishes that are non-traditionally vegetarian, they should go with traditionally vegetarian cuisines. I don't see why people should constrain themselves like that instead of _both_ trying traditionally veg cuisines and vegetarian twists on cuisines they're already more used to.

I grew up on all kinds of cuisine (my mom really liked cooking), and I'm equally capable of enjoying vegetarian meals that are traditionally so as I am of enjoying well-made vegetarian modifications to non-veg dishes. Your suggestion of ignoring one a big part of the cuisine space seems like a much more surefire recipe for recidivism than keeping both options open.

strong agreement. as a lifelong omnivore, "veggie" editions of things are kinda icky. But things that are inherently veggie are pretty good. Thai and Indian cuisine, as represented in the West Coast of the US, are good examples of this.

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