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Comment by findateamfirst | Hacker News Reader

I went through a pretty intense major depressive episode (6 months not getting out of bed) plus chronic dissociation and depression. End to end from the onset of the episode to reaching a point where I feel I'm "fully actualized" took 6 years. During that process I went from being one of the angriest and most unpleasant people to being very happy with many close relationships, and a clear sense of purpose.

My mental health crisis was absolutely a wake up call. It lead me to make significant structural changes to my approach to phenomenology, aesthetics, morality, and epistemology. I totally restructured my moment to moment experience of existence.

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How did you do this? I spend almost every waking moment fantasizing about ending my life

wow..

Don't want to give any real advice here other than talk to someone! - that sounds very scary.

will keep ya in mind..

The key thing is to realise that YOU control your thoughts. We're creatures of habits. YOU choose what to think whether you realise it or not.

Something within you associates the feeling of "depression" with reward.

Actively review your history, your relationships, patterns of behaviour. Look at your own thought processes critically, document them, decide how you want to think instead, and force yourself to think in the new way.

You control not just what you think but how you feel. You can feel how you want to feel. That's the key. Once you decide or are told you're "depressed" you "accept" that you have an "illness" and internalise it. Stop doing that shit. Ignore those bastards. Change how you think.

This is basically CBT. You have to actively control your thought processes to change them to something you want. Once you've done that for a while it becomes the new default.

Don't allow yourself to think things that don't help you. When you start fantasising about death, don't let yourself think about it. Force yourself to make plans for the next few days or something instead. When you think "I don't have the energy/motivation to make plans because I'm 'depressed'", tell yourself, "I'm not allowed to think that, instead I'm going to MAKE THE FUCKING PLANS".

Fuck all that bullshit about "chemical imbalances". You know what that means? It means your brain is wired wrong. Those chemicals? The sames ones everyone else has. Wanna know what the imbalance is? YOU LEARNED TO BEHAVE IN THE WRONG WAY, SO YOUR WIRING IS ALL FUCKED UP. Those neurotransmitters are going exactly where they've learnt to go.

YOU have to retrain your brain. Fuck everything people have told you about being "mentally ill". Recognise your brain as a learning machine and TEACH THAT MOTHER FUCKER HOW TO BEHAVE.

Life sucks? You either learn how to change it or learn how to change what you think about it.

You think those poor mother fuckers in third world countries with just enough food to eat who save up for years to buy a BICYCLE are depressed? FUCK NO THAT MOTHER FUCKER GOT HIS BICYCLE. He's 40 years old, barely feeding his family, but he's got a smile so wide he lights up every mother fucking heart in his village.

You know WHY? Because he doesn't think about why things are shit. He thinks about why things are SHIT HOT. MOTHER FUCKING BIKE HAS A BELL CHECK THAT SHIT OUT.

YOU define your reality. YOU define how you perceive the world. With a great deal of influence from those around you.

Surrounded by mother fuckers who are "depressed"? Get the fuck away from them. Find happy people. Catch their disease instead.

Control your thoughts, control your environment, discipline your brain to only allow you to think things that help you. Fuck everything else.

That's how you cure depression. You control what you think by understanding why you think what you think right now and throwing away the bad shit and keeping the good shit.

Do yourself a favour. Next time you think "I should be dead". Think "lol brain you're not allowed to think that shit anymore", SMILE and write down some shit you're grateful for. Call your friends/family and chat about some good shit that went down in the past. Think about the people who have done good shit for you over the years, and how happy it makes you that those mother fuckers exist.

Think of the mother fucker who you're most grateful for. Why do you like them so much? How did they make you feel? GOOD. Now go make other people feel like that. Be happy. Make other people happy. Feed on their happiness.

"But I want to die". Shut the fuck up brain you're not allowed to think that. Hey brain, remember that fucking awesome ice cream we ate last week? Yeah that was some good shit. I should show someone that ice cream, they'll like that shit. Remember that kid we used to hang out with when we were kids? Wonder what he's doing with his life now. We laughed our fucking cocks off at such and such. What a good memory.

What's that brain, feels good? Yeah, yeah it does feel fucking good. That's why you're gonna think good shit from now on brain. BECAUSE IT FEELS GOOD.

Fuck. Think good stuff. Don't allow yourself to think bad stuff. Make it a habit. Eventually you stop thinking bad stuff.

Make plans. Make people happy. Feed on happiness. Think of good memories. No good memories? Go fucking make some. Then think about them.

Fuck depression. Ain't nobody got time for that.

Here have a hug. They're free. Pass it on. Have a smile too these fuckers are great. :-D

Okay I'm done.

This is painfully condescending.

Only if you decide it is such. I've suffered major depression for many years, now, and the advice given is good and will help some people. It's much better than the usual trite "just think happier". It might not help those of us who are deep down the rabbit hole, but it at least, to me, seems not to hurt.

And painfully wrong.

For instance:

> The key thing is to realise that YOU control your thoughts. We're creatures of habits. YOU choose what to think whether you realise it or not.

Rather, you choose what to think of those thoughts you have.

I do not believe in freedom of the will. Schopenhauer's words: "Man can do what he wants, but he cannot will what he wills" accompany me in all situations throughout my life.

-- Albert Einstein

Are you saying that it's impossible to control your thoughts?

Saying that "you choose what to think" means that you can control your thoughts.

You seem to be operating with unusual definitions of "think" and "thoughts" if thinking does not result in thoughts.

CBT isn't as simple as "you can control your thoughts". It's a carefully structured plan of therapy to give a person the skills and techniques they need to control thoughts.

By saying, and repeating "you can control you're thoughts" without giving any of the detail of CBT you're merely telling people with depression to just think themselves happy.

Also, people with OCD will find it harder to control their thoughts, and people with psychosis may find it impossible without medication.

> Are you saying that it's impossible to control your thoughts?

Given that thought generation is not a process that you (the person) actively control, that seems rather obvious. "Thoughts" would refer to all of them, and many thoughts are intrusive or otherwise do not originate from "you" (i.e., insights, creativity related thoughts, odd memories, associations, etc., etc.).

You can have thoughts about thoughts, and you have a greater control over those because you /are/ more or less actively generating those, but that's not true for most thoughts you have.

Even then, the control space is very limited (not truly deserving of the term control) and only available to people who practice a lot of introspection. CBT is a tool in making one's way there. It's not something that the average person can get up and do. "You can control your thoughts" is therefore not the most useful statement, we're not discussing what's possible in theory, we're trying to help a specific person.

Cup, I didn't read it as condescending, came off more in the way of a poetry jam (to me). It's an approach.

Infinitely well said, sir. Thank you.

I needed a bit of that.

This is it.

If you need a more hands-on approach, I can recommend an old (1980) but very, very good book: Feeling Good by David D. Burns. Best $6 you will ever spend IMHO if you have any kind of depression issue.

This book helped me a lot when I was severely depressed. I too had irrational thoughts of dying and running away, and the practical exercises in the book helped me to get my thoughts moving in a better direction so I could feel better. I remember going for a walk (exercise is supposed to help, right?) and trying to think of something I like. I drew a blank for like 10 minutes - that's how bad off I was. I finally decided I liked my car - hey don't judge, it was something. I know well that feeling of trying to make yourself feel better and being unable to. For normal ups and downs in life that approach works. Not for depression.

When I was most severely depressed, it felt like I had fallen into a pit of soft, soft dirt. The more I tried to claw my way out of it, the more I would only dig a deeper hole. By learning to change my thought patterns, it was like having the hole I was in shrink until I could just step out. It is hard for someone who hasn't been there to understand. Those who suffer try so hard, but it just doesn't work.

Today, I am fully recovered and have been for years. There is hope that people can be completely healed.

>I too had irrational thoughts of dying and running away

Those thoughts you listed are entirely rational. Only very, very few folks have irrational thoughts.

Why can't I favorite this comment.

Of course, giving mental health advice on the internet can be dangerous. This is of course not a magic recipe (advertising it as such may lead to people thinking "if this doesn't work for me, I'm broken") but I believe for some people your advice might be very helpful.

What you describe is the state of mind I had going out of a long lasting (1y+) depressive phase: "Fuck depression. These thoughts are not me, they are a parasite in my brain trying to kill me and I will identify and fight them."

You can favorite the comment, it is a link once you go to the comment itself. Or, click here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/fave?id=14104733&auth=eadd5c4c6...

Oh, thanks. I don't know why but I didn't find it.

>You control not just what you think but how you feel. You can feel how you want to feel. That's the key. Once you decide or are told you're "depressed" you "accept" that you have an "illness" and internalise it. Stop doing that shit. Ignore those bastards. Change how you think.

> This is basically CBT. You have to actively control your thought processes to change them to something you want. Once you've done that for a while it becomes the new default.

It's a very poor description of CBT.

Note that all of this assumes (as clinical psychology approaches usually do) that you've already eliminated all plausible physiological causes, which most people with depressed mood haven't (even if they've seen a doctor about it). Depressed mood is a feature of numerous medical conditions that require their own treatments and don't respond to CBT beyond peripheral improvements like reducing shame about having the illness and improving treatment compliance.

CBT has been shown to be effective in around 60% of patients, it's great that this method worked for you but this message is very rude to those who won't benefit from it.

Folks, please go see a therapist for CBT and just ignore the parent comment. I've read up on it and even been to one, and their advice is going to differ from the parent comment in most ways.

Hey, I know I'm an internet stranger, but check out

https://www.reddit.com/r/SuicideWatch/

they have some very good stuff in the sidebar and are very supportive.

And with that out of the way, if you will indulge my curiosity, do you suffer from it? I hope you have a nice day.

Thanks I appreciate your concern, been dealing with it for a long time and have explored various treatment options. I would say yes it's nearly constant suffering. Just an exhaustion with life, 30 more years of this doesn't appeal to me. It's mostly around not having the level of dating/sexual privilege that most women experience in the dating market and just being out of energy to keep searching for a mate every year.

Then i hope you have found some things which work for you. And kudos for keeping going.

I will give you some "break glass in case of emergency" advice that will (probably) help you immediately:

1) Take a shower. 2) Do a load of laundry. 3) Go for a long run. 4) Take a shower and put on clean clothes. 5) Start eating mostly green leafy vegetables and 6) Make an appointment with a doctor or psychiatrist (you are in urgent need of medical care).

Get and stay clean, start exercising and eating healthy, and go get some professional help. If you have any close friends or family, now would be a time to cash in those "Free Hug" vouchers with your support network. I also started reading the Stoics.

Two things I have found helpful:

- internal family systems (for understanding how deal with strong emotions) - https://youtu.be/qo_DebUQgmA

- Win Hof Method (for helping the body to heal itself) - https://youtu.be/gKgUE76udK4

I was diagnosed with Bipolar and have suicidal thoughts often.

You killing yourself would fuck up the lives of the people who love you and make them sad. In that sense, your life doesn't really belong to you; they're the ones who will suffer if you die.

Please don't do it. I know it's hard. And having a mental condition is tiring. You're a rock in the sand slowly being worn down by the waves. They never stop. And all of your fellow rocks are just past the high tide mark.

Your life absolutely belongs to you. It's true that other people suffer with you, but ultimately the decision is 100% your own.

It's possible to be supportive and try to keep someone alive as long as possible without making them feel like they're slaved to someone else's desires. I think everyone deserves to feel autonomous.

One of us might be misunderstanding the GP here. In my case, I'm also overlaying my own personal experience on what has been said, so grain of salt and all that.

I want to kill myself. I've wanted to end my wretched life for a long time now. But I know that if I did this it would destroy my family. I love my mother, father and sister and I don't want to do this horrible thing to them. So, in my mind, my only option is to limp onward.

It is 100% my decision. I've decided to make the less selfish choice.

I also spend many days watching negative and suicidal thoughts running through my brain. I didn't actually read this article yet, I came in because the "Shamanic" and "Mental Illness" in the title and I thought it might have to do with ayahuasca, san pedro, or some other plant medicines.

In the last 2 years I have sat in a total of 5 joint ayahuasca and san pedro ceremonies (2 ceremonies over 3 days) and can say that each one has shifted in some significant way how I see myself, the world, other people and the interconnected relationships between them.

The internet has a lot of crazy information out there, but this Vice piece is the most measured I've seen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aaOfFixoxP8

Start meditating, seriously, it saved my life and its better than ever before now.. without the attachment to the "I" which seems to think that it thinks these thoughts.. who are you? what are you in the wholeness of your experience? Ask yourself, intently, and listen to the silence. Feel the core of your arms, the subtile energy there. Keep your awareness on it.... and then look around while keeping your awareness there. Look at things, look at what you see in the whole field of view. There's space behind it and around it. You are the space experiencing itself thinking these thoughts. You are nothing without thought and yet you are not thought.. can you see what I mean?

I wanted to write something here because a friend of mine went through recurring thoughts of self-harm and (though they are doing much better now) it was difficult to see. I apologise if I'm repeating some things you've already been told but:

First of all, please, if you believe you are actually going to harm yourself then talk to someone right away. Call a relative / friend / counseling hotline [online search should find a number in your country / area].

If you can't get through, or you think you might still harm yourself, then go straight to your hospital's ER or call an ambulance.

Bottom line: if you're in that situation, you need to make contact with someone!

Aside from the "urgent situation" stuff above, I echo the suggestions of other commenters that explaining your symptoms to a medical professional (appointment with family doctor, or similar) is an important step. They will likely be able to advise you better than any of us.

Finally, on mental illness in general: I've experienced episodes of major depression and of serious anxiety problems (as, in fact, have many of my friends and family). Medication, for me, worked wonders and helped me rebuild my strength - but the real turning point was when I talked it over with my doctor. That helped me begin exploring what I could do to get better, which led to all the improvements I've felt since.

I know it's difficult and I know I'm not in a position to understand your particular situation. I'm not suggesting these problems are always easy to fix - but from what I've seen, I really do believe improvements are possible for all of us.

Good luck with everything.

Very well put, thank you for sharing your experience. Often O feel that depression in an "healthy" reaction to something wrong: there are good reasons to be depressed.

Amen my brother. Phenomenology and aesthetics is great medicine. We need to find greater purpose beyond just optimizing for/against pleasure pain.

EDIT: Or are you a sister?

What were some resources that put you on the path to recovery?

If you're inclined to detail the structural changes you made or have already done so, it seems like something that could be incredibly useful if it finds its way into the right hands.

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