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> I think working from home is superior (for tech/programming work).

I disagree with you, specifically one point.

>The office does offer some perks, but they are not related to work itself, they are all about socializing / banter / feeling of being part of a team.

That "banter" or "socializing" is work related. I've found that working from home (been doing it 2 years now) has one very big disadvantage - unless the whole team is remote.

You will be excluded from meetings, decisions and conversations. You will always have a feeling that you're missing something. You will miss important hallway conversations that can impact the work you do.

Would V8 have been written in an open office environment?

https://www.ft.com/content/03775904-177c-11de-8c9d-0000779fd...

Paywall link. What's the summary?

You can use google cache:

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:AUQIVz...

I understand that, but I believe if more than a few work remotely, the culture of the company would shift to moving important stuff and meetings online.

I'm the only one at our small company that works remotely. I miss so much of what is going on decision wise.

Any talk of new clients, potential new business, larger future projects are all communicated to me once they are mostly already hashed out. This keeps me from playing a bigger part in the company and thus the work they throw my way is more on the grunt/boring side.

I love working remotely though and I'm not working in the tiny open office they have. I would be interested in seeing what the dynamic is like with a full remote team.

I've mostly worked at home since my son was born (he's 26 now). I used to go in one day a week, I worked for startups for years and would start full time, drop off to 4->3->2 days a week. These days I never go in (I live 10,000km away at the moment, it's no longer a 1 hour drive in the Valley).

I think there's a few things you have to realise about working at home: - you get to avoid almost all office politics - you will eventually lose at office politics

Essentially you need to have a manager who will step up and root for you, and you guys need to talk so he/she knows where your head is at

> you will eventually lose at office politics

Yup. We are small enough that we all report directly to the CEO. Though anywhere I've worked remotely or not it is always me looking out for me. Never had a manager help with that.

I've found that having that explicit discussion with every new manager helps a lot, eventually you get a crap one and lose, but then that's probably time to move on

That's a very real pain when only one or two people are remote. I spent the last five years in that environment and definitely missed out on a lot of relevant discussions.

I'm now leading a team which is about 50% remote, with the remaining people working from home a few days a week, and it makes a huge difference. Discussions naturally occur on Slack, often spinning out into a few people jumping into a Hangouts call. For people in the office we've got the meeting room set up for video conferencing which makes it practical to have mixed local/remote meetings without the half hour of trying to get things set up.

Overall I'm a big fan, and hopeful that we can make people working remote even smoother as time goes on.

>You will be excluded from meetings

Oh, the bliss.

I prefer to work in my cubicle at the office instead of at home even though I am alone in the office for most of the time and all of my development team colleagues are in another country. The reason is that it is simply easier for me to concentrate there, fewer distractions, fewer excuses to take a break. But I'm glad I'm not in the same location as most of my colleagues in the team because they are in an open plan office so crowded that they have to leave the room to make a telephone call and need to wear closed headphones to cut out the distractions.

The key here is that no one around and you can concentrate alone.

Exactly.

So the home versus office axis is the wrong one to think about. The deciding factor is how well one can work in which place and that depends on a lot more than home versus office.

Not everyone is good at having the discipline to get work done at home and to separate home and work while they're at home. Also, people with young children are naturally going to have a big problem. Lots of people who try it complain that their spouses and kids won't leave them alone at home, thinking that popping in isn't a big deal even though it interrupts their focus. And not everyone can afford a home that gives them extra space for a home office. Most people in Silicon Valley can't seem to afford anything bigger than a telephone booth. Don't forget that many people have roommates too.

There's a reason that coworking or small office spaces are so popular these days: for $500/month in many places, you get your own little office with a door that shuts where you can concentrate on your work, or a quiet cubicle among other people with similar situations. If everyone was able to make working at home work for them, these places would not exist.

> most people in Silicon Valley can't seem to afford anything bigger

What's the point of living in an ultra-expensive region if you work from home?

1. you get paid well.

2. silicon valley is a nice place to live in.

Nice place to live if you like suburban sprawl, maybe. I doubt any company would be willing to offer me a high enough salary to make the sacrifice of living in SV seem appealing.

If you work from home there is no reason your geographic location should impact pay.

$500/month for a coworking cubicle? Wow. The going rate around here (Chicagoland) seems to be less than $200 a month. In some of the smaller cities I don't think it even costs more than $400/month to give yourself a (small) dedicated suite for an office around here.

I checked a few months back in Brooklyn and it cost $550/mo for a desk with a door. No windows, and not enough room for two people to stand in...at least it made me appreciate my home office more.

It's just a number I pulled out of my ass for an example; I haven't shopped around so I really don't know what they cost, and of course it'll vary a lot from place to place. Also depends on if it's a coworking space (cubicles, other people around) or a closed office with a door.

Having kids doesn't have to be a big problem. The important thing is to have a space which is work, and make sure everyone knows that when you're in that space its like you're at the office.

I've got a three year old who is used to me working from home and doesn't cause any problems at all.

That might work for you, but every time this discussion comes up around here, there's a whole bunch of parents complaining how their spouse and kids simply will not stop disturbing them, no matter how much they try to explain that they can't do this.

I'm aware its a problem for some people, I just feel it gets overblown. Maybe those of us who find it OK are the silent majority, or maybe I'm an outlier, but I know quite a few parents who work remote and don't have any complaints about being interrupted constantly by family.

I also know of far more people who complain of being constantly interrupted by managers and noise in an open plan office. Its not like modern offices are an oasis of calm.

Or maybe your kids/family are different from other peoples'. I've seen some peoples' kids who were a complete terror and nothing could make them stay calm and quiet. Some kids are just better than others that way. You got lucky. This is a big reason I never really wanted kids; I just can't handle constant noise and commotion. I have a friend with a 7yo kid who's bouncing off the walls every time I visit; there's just no way I could live with someone like that every day. I have enough noise and commotion at work; I don't need it at home too.

And yes, open offices are horrible this way too. That's why we're having this discussion about people wanting to work from home: for many, it's a lot better than the chaos at the open-plan office at work, even if it isn't ideal. For others, it's at least as bad (kids/wife), so they either deal with the office, or they go to a coffee shop or rent a coworking space or similar.

Yeah, it's not an issue for me either. I've set clear boundaries with my family (wife and three kids five and under), and they leave me alone in my workspace. I shut and lock the door and that's it until I come out. Works really well. I wonder if those who've had problems have also had difficulty setting and credibly committing to boundaries. It may not seem like much, but if one of them tries and succeeds in getting your attention (pounding on the door, etc.) then they'll do it again. It's incredibly important that they believe that once the door is closed and locked that you're essentially not there.

My daughters love it when I work from home, so they're very supportive of my boundaries.

The thing is, that takes family members who actually respect your boundaries. I've read numerous anecdotes on discussions like this from other people who just don't have that luxury; their spouse and/or kids simply do not get it. One guy said he finally rented a little office for $500/month (or whatever), and showed his wife the bill. Then she freaked out and committed to not bother him at home, and got him to cancel his rental (though he still lost out on that 1 month's rent). And how you get some kids to respect your boundaries, I have no idea. Your kids sound great, but I've seen other kids who simply would not do this, no matter what.

I completely agree. I'm actually very much an extrovert, but I also do deep focused work (data science stuff) and really like being at home, in my locked "office" (walk-in closet with an attached bathroom) working on stuff. I get so much more done, and I love the efficiency of not having to get in my car and commute somewhere. Any kind of office environment will come with a commute, car maintenance, and a rigid workday. Wanna do a few hours, take a nap, and then do a couple more, have dinner with the family then do some more? Yeah, not happening in any kind of office I've ever worked in.

I WFH a couple days a week just so I can make up for the lack of productivity from the three days at the office.