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Comment by Hexcles | Hacker News Reader

Animal welfare aside, I find people in North America really in favour of chicken breast, much more than other parts, say chicken thigh. Yet I myself think chicken thigh tastes much better, especially with the skin (yet again it is usually skinless in supermarkets here, unfortunately). Is it because of nutrition (percentage of fat/protein etc.)? On top of that, chicken feet are considered unacceptable by many...

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On the bright side: I live in the US, I love the "dark"/fatty meat on chickens, and I don't mind that everyone else here prefers "white"/dry chicken meat because that means a) chicken thighs are often much less expensive, and b) I rarely have to fight over the thighs and other fatty meat when sharing a full bird.

Edit to add: As for why other people prefer white meat, people usually invoke that it tastes better, but I've always figured that this was an acquired taste and that decades of pressure to reduce fat in our diets pushed people continually over to breast meat.

> chicken thighs are often much less expensive

One of the few downsides to shopping in an "ethnic" area in the USA is that chicken thighs are just as expensive per pound as chicken breasts

Not if you live in one of those ethnic white enclaves.

The breast is more homogenous, which is a nice touch.

And there I think you have it. I discovered as a parent the homogeneity is the key to "kid food", chicken breast being an excellent example. I remembered preferring Campbell's chicken soup, with its uniform little white cubes of chicken and homogenized fat to the version that my mother, where the chicken was raggedy looking and the fat floated unevenly.

I absolutely hate Campbell's chicken soup, but I think it has more to do with the high salt content, and the fact that it was what I was given by my mom to me when I was sick with the flu.

My wife's chicken soup, with dumplings, though? I'll have a couple servings of it no problem!

I agree, it's an acquired taste. I used to hate white meat chicken; I started eating a lot of it as part of an overall weight-loss program. Now, I actually prefer it. Dark meat seems oddly fatty, and has a weird texture. I don't really know why. I will say that learning to properly cook white meat chicken has contributed. A correctly-cooked chicken breast is very different than an improper one.

It's the effect of decades of advertisement. We've been duped into thinking that white meat is normal and good, when white meat in chicken breast shows a sedentary existence. Truly free range chickens do not have breast meat as white as those from factory farms.

It's the same way we've been duped into believing that we need to eat that bowl of cereal in the morning.

> We've been duped into thinking that white meat is normal and good

It's also why McDonald's McNuggets are now made with "all white meat" - except it isn't breast meat. Its a mixture of meat and meat by-products that have been blended and bleached. It has a mouth-feel unlike either dark or white meat chicken; it's a unique combo (I am not against McDs or their nuggets, btw).

I remember when McNuggets first came out - there were three distinct shapes. Only the "round" shape was white meat - and actual all-breast meat. The other two shapes were dark meat. Today, there are only two of the same three shapes that I recall, and both are of the blended "white" meat.

Which is a shame - I liked the variety more before.

It may interest you to know that outside the US (in Australia at least), "white" and "dark" meat aren't differentiated from each other at all. I was quite confused when I went to an American chicken shop and saw "white" and "dark" meat with different prices.

The preference for white meat is almost pathological. Constantly I hear (I cook and teach people to cook) people complain that they can't get chicken right, that it's dry or rubbery. And then they REFUSE to cook or try thighs instead, which are forgiving and tasty.

Well, you can make breast meat juicy and awesome, but it's just much more difficult, especially with the ridiculous size pieces you get nowadays.

I've never liked the taste of chicken very much, especially white meat/eggs. The smell of normal eggs that have been cooked is nearly enough to make me vomit.

Despite this fact, I still ate chicken and eggs, because it can be rather healthy.

A couple of years ago I had an organic free range egg for the first time and it was incredible. It didn't smell anything like normal eggs, and it tasted like actual food. It's hard to describe, but normal eggs almost smell/taste like a hospital to me.

A little while after that I was picking up some chicken breasts, and the organic ones at the supermarket were on sale. Given my experience with the eggs, I thought I'd give it a shot.

The difference between the organic chicken breast and a normal chicken breast was incredible. For one thing, there was fat, and it actually looked like fat. And the breast was pretty small, but it was super tasty.

Altogether, that experience totally sold me on organic food.

When roasting a whole bird, I love to use the turn method. Some people turn the bird three times, I just do it once and find it's awesome (same for turkey).

Basically, cook the chicken upside down for basically half the time, and then finish it breast side up.

Juicy breast meat every time.

I smoke whole birds including turkeys in my Big Green Egg. When doing a whole bird - breasts get to temp much quicker so you can put ice packs on the breasts before you cook to try and get all parts to hit ~160 degrees at the same time. I don't turn it at all, I use a Sittin Turkey/Chicken ceramic holder to keep the bird upright and moist from the liquid inside.

You probably don't have room in your oven to do a turkey upright but it works well on a grill and you can easily do a whole chicken upright in the oven. You can pour beer or other liquid and spices into the center of it to keep it moist. It's just a better beer can chicken. Highly recommend.

Good suggestion on turning in oven though if you aren't upright - less is more. Same with steaks and burgers.

I strongly prefer chicken and turkey breast because it's easy to deal with because it does not have bones or cartilage. When it's cooked it usually doesn't have any weird colors and the taste is relatively boring but consistent.

Thighs, wings, drumsticks etc all have problems I just don't want to deal with as an eater.

...because it does not have bones or cartilage.

So eat the meat and throw away the bones or cartilage. Then go grab the calcium caps afterwards.

No, boil those after and make soup

I don't think you want to do that with bones from factory-raised chickens.

Why not? I've been making stock from carcasses for years. Granted, most of the animals I eat are either hunted or some type of free-range/organic/what-have-you, but I've made stock from cheap grocery-store birds before too, and honestly I don't think that I could tell the difference.

What is the difference between eating the meat of a factory-raised chicken and making stock from a factory-raised chicken?

The bones and cartilage is where the nutrients are.

You can buy boneless skinless thighs, they're great

Yeash, what do you do when faced with a lobster or whole crab? Or a whole fish! The cheeks on a grouper, mmmm. Not to mention that the scraps and pickings off a just carved bird carcass are some of the best eating on the thing.

The preference for chicken breast in the US is because of the "low fat" focus of the past several decades. Chicken breasts have been promoted as a high protein/low fat cornerstone of a meat-eater's diet.

I also wonder if chicken breast consumption has been promoted by the poultry industry because it's easier to increase the size of breasts through breeding and injecting solution than it is other parts of the bird. That means they can produce more pounds of breast (at a higher price) for sale per bird than thighs, wings, or drumsticks.

I think it's both the 80s/90s low-fat push, yes, but also an aversion to eating anything that reminds us it came from an animal. Chicken breast, preferably breaded to make it look even less like something that was ever alive ("nuggets", even better!), pre-sliced turkey breast, cured meats, fish reduced to scale-free filet or stick form, all acceptable. Boneless steak cuts if we want to feel exotic and wild (cooked to medium if we really want that cave-man experience, of course—medium-well otherwise).

Bones, skin, limb-shaped things in general, organs certainly, blood, any recognizable bits really (heads on fish, oh man, that's right out) are to be rejected with expressions of disgust.

Outside the serious hunting/fishing set and self-identified (in their own minds at least) cultured and/or foodie folks, this is the norm as far as I can tell.

Convenience alone could also account for all of the examples you mention. You can see the same trend in non-animal products as well - my wife just brought home a pack of pudding twice as expensive because it's in an "easy to eat" pouch that doesn't require a spoon, unlike a normal pudding cup.

There's a large contingent of dark meat eaters here in North America as well, and we also find it a mystery.

As well, you have really mess up to overcook thighs. They are one of the easiest/tastiest things to cook over charcoal. Meanwhile, a minute too long and you've ruined white meat. I've since learned that the guidelines for cooking white meat are very conservative and I can cook breasts to a lower temp than I'd thought[1], but then I have the opposite problem - some white meat eaters seem to prefer overcooked meat.

[1] https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/complex-origins-f...

I won't forget the first time I served a perfectly cooked breast to my sister-in-law. Her reply: "it's too juicy."

That is just... sad. Don't know if she's American, but Americans have a HUGE problem with food. The US was never a country with any unified culinary history. The culinary traditions that came with immigrants and slaves largely stayed in those communities and didn't leech out into the culture at large in their original and tasty forms. We've ended up with a culture of bastardized and homogenized factory foods.

You can find good food in most medium-sized and larger cities but you have to seek it out. And the local treasure may surprise you. Food trucks have been great for finding tasty fare the last decade or so.

That said, I do think there are two standout foods that are ubiquitous in America although they vary by region. 1) bbq; 2) the sandwich. Behold the great American sandwich in all its varied forms:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/14/dining/field-...

Really top-notch American barbecue really doesn't get enough credit. The best BBQ places deliver a head-trip, pleasure-overload, "this is so good I'm going to die" experience that matches any haute cuisine you can find.

So true. It doesn't get the credit because it's often eaten at a picnic table with lots of napkins. It also uses a lot of cheaper meats. BBQ doesn't apologize for that though. What it does to cuts like pork shoulder is magical though. I smoked a hand made pizza once with cherry wood at like 700+ degrees in my BGE and it was the best pizza I've ever had. I haven't been able to replicate it though because I haven't done it enough to be consistent.

I think BBQ will eventually get it's due. We're seeing a lot of chefs take common, cheaper dishes and make them more upscale and interesting to larger audiences and foodies. One of the best dishes I ever had was dinuguan [1] at Paul Qui's (Top Chef winner) restaurant in Austin.

I don't think Americans have a huge problem with food as the parent suggests. I'm biased of course but I prefer it how it is. We don't need a singular identity. We have places like Napa, Vegas, NY and San Fran that stack up against any city in the world, even though our history is short. We attract top talent from everywhere and the melting pot delivers vastly different experiences. You can come to the US and visit New York, New Orleans and the Pacific Northwest and get amazing food with completely different styles and cultural identities.

Why do we need a unified food? Why is that important?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dinuguan

I like to do pizza in my Traeger, usually with mesquite pellets. Best pizza always.

I also like to roast potatoes in it, as well as cook mac-n-cheese (in a shallow dish) to get that smoky flavor.

I'll never go back to a regular bbq or grill - even gas. The electronic controls of the Traeger (and I imagine other brands) make things dead simple; set the temp, throw on the meat, and let it go - return back after however long the meat needs. Don't peek under the lid. Remove, let rest, then enjoy. Best and easiest BBQ ever (I always hated having to babysit my bbq, checking temps, adding wood, making sure the water bath was right, etc).

Yeah true BBQ is the way to go. Some people think BBQ includes direct flames on a gas grill.

I do use a small propane grill during the week sometimes though (small Weber Q which I recommend for this purpose). I've taken it to the beach and to friends before.

Def shouldn't be peeking as you mentioned. As the saying goes - if you're lookin you ain't cookin!

Ok, fair! Americans do truly excel at the sandwich and bbq. But speaking a little to my original point, bbq belongs more to the South than to any other parts of the US, though any American will recognize barbecue as something truly a part of their culture!

This isn't entirely true and it paints too negative of a picture. There are culinary traditions in the US just as there are anywhere else - traditional southern food is excellent:

Shrimp and Grits, biscuits, tasso and country hams, corn breads, fried chicken, country-fried steaks, pimento cheese, collard greens, fried or fresh oysters, pig ears, catfish, pies (some of the best in the world), buckwheat pancakes, etc etc etc.

Not to mention that American BBQ is revered pretty much around the world..oh and almost forgot, the regional cuisine in Louisiana is excellent, steamed shrimp, jambalaya, gumbo...I'll never forget my first bowl of real gumbo with it's strong punch of filé spice.

And that's only traditional southern cuisine that I'm familiar with, I'm sure the rest of the country has it's own traditions as well.

You want to really gross someone out? Serve them properly cooked pork - where there's just a hint of pink to it. They'll think you're trying to poison them.

/I've been served a pork tenderloin that was so brown I thought it was beef...yuck.

It's probably fine, but is it worth the risk that parasites will be permanently embedded in your body? I'll go with "NO".

Given the above, enjoying the taste is right out. Pick your favorite meal, add a bit of poison, and try to enjoy it.

There are plenty of Americans grossed out by chicken feet for sure, but to be real they're not convenient to eat. I suspect that's along the lines of the breast preference as well (no skin, bone to deal with for most sold in stores).

I cook mostly with thighs, for sure. Much prefer the flavor, but also they're 1/3 the price.

I prefer chicken thigh myself, but the best chicken I've tasted to date comes from the hands of an experienced chef who made the chicken breast the most tender and delicious chicken I've ever tasted. The dish also included the thigh, but it didn't come close to the breast. It's as if the thigh is much more forgiving but has a lower potential ceiling than the breast which is much less forgiving but can be insanely delicious.

After drying out breasts using a number of other cooking methods, I've found sous vide to produce breasts that are unbelievably juicy.

I've found sous vide to produce <insert literally anything> that are unbelievably juicy.

Still waiting for Sous Vide machines to get cheaper! I know they're regularly between $100-$150 on sale, i.e. Anova, but it's still too expensive to take the plunge for me.

I personally do not enjoy fatty meats. I much prefer the leaner breast meat over the fatty dark meat. Partly a texture thing for me.

More anecdata: I strongly prefer dark meat for taste, but I like that I can eat white meat without feeling like I need a shower afterward due to grease. Also I like having less fat (I get enough of that as it is).

So what it comes down to, is if we get a whole precooked chicken (roasted or fried, whatever), I'll go for the wings and thighs, but if we're just buying a big pack of something to cook at home, I usually just pick up a half-dozen breasts and call it good.

As a North American child, I grew up with hideously overcooked chicken and turkey from cheap supermarket freezers: the skin was always a crunchy mess of solid cellulose and burned glazes, the dark meat was a brown pile of fibrous sludge, and the dry breast meat had the only bearable taste and texture (and only after adding sauce...)

After I learned how to cook for myself, chicken became a completely different, wholy enjoyable food.

I think it has to do with being told fat is bad for so many years. Obviously it is in excess, but now as people come more aware of carbohydrates and other issues with an unbalanced diet things may change.

My wife will only eat the breast, because she doesn't like the greasier feel of dark meat. I'll eat either but don't have a strong preference so we mainly just get breasts.

Interestingly, the marketing of the white breast meat was almost a problem but worked out well for Big Chicken: they overdid the marketing of breast meat and had a problem of how to dispose of the thigh meat (there's only so much pet food required) but nowadays most is exported to Russia where the bland breast meat is not desired.

> they overdid the marketing of breast meat and had a problem of how to dispose of the thigh meat

Actually, a portion of it is bleached, and used as "white meat" for those frozen shaped chicken products like chicken patties and nuggets...

Much of it comes down to people's discomfort with meat.

White meat is consistent, reliable, mild-flavored, and often is served such that it contains no clues that it came from a living animal.

Those not comfortable with murdering for food shouldn't do so by proxy.

One of the things I'm grateful to my parents for is teaching me where meat comes from. I mean, I knew it was a dead animal, but to really know...

We lived on a county island in our small city (now larger) in California; so we could have farm animals on our property. My parents raised ducks, chickens, rabbits, geese, pigs and one time a cow. We had "farm fresh" eggs every day; in fact, we had so many my mom would sell them from the house as a way of making some side money as a stay-at-home mom, while my dad worked for the county (road maintenance).

I was witness to numerous chicken beheadings, and know exactly where and why the phrase "running around like a chicken with its head cut off" comes from. I even help to pluck the carcasses with my mom.

I later watched my dad skin and gut our rabbits, which we later cooked and ate for dinner.

Same with the pigs and the cow (we had a local butcher come and shoot them, they were then pre-prepped for transport to the butcher's shop, where he aged and prepped/packaged them - we had a large chest freezer to hold the meat after).

I have no illusions about where our meat comes from. I have no illusions that it was once living and breathing. If there is anything that disturbs me about our current "factory farm" system of meat, it would be the occasional piece of chicken - almost always a wing piece - where the bone is broken, leaving me to wonder whether that happened pre or post-mortem.

I don't want any animal to suffer before death, even if I am going to be eating it later.

I have seen quite a few broken legs as well, and my mind goes to the same place as yours each time.

It must happen near processing time otherwise I suspect they would not be healthy enough for human consumption. There must be other ways to use the most damaged animals.

Good for those of use who prefer chicken thigh with skin.

I like both breasts and thighs.

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