Graffiti 'dying out' as kids dump spray cans for Instagram, Twitter etc. | Hacker News Reader

Graffiti 'dying out' as kids dump spray cans for Instagram, Twitter etc.

theregister.co.uk

96 pointsa-smith57 comments

Article is completely incorrect.

>> "Contemporary graffiti writing is changing – it is no longer an activity that is played out in urban environments, but also on the internet."

Too much time at art school. Not enough time on actual streets. Want to know why graffiti is dead? Google "jailed for writing on a school desk" or any similar phrase. Graffiti is not "petty crime" when it can see you hauled off campus in handcuffs. Want to go to university some day? Want to join the army? You better hope you tagging something doesn't get you charged with destruction of property. If the property, or the costs of fixing it, is more than 300$ (yes, three hundred dollars) you may be looking at felony charges and multiple YEARS in prison [1]. Even if you are not jailed, if found guilty you are now a felon. Good luck voting and heaven help you if you need any sort of government assistance. The days of "el barto" are long gone.

Graffiti is dying because of decades of insane, albeit selective, enforcement. It just isn't worth the risks.

[1] http://www.criminalpropertydamage.com/illinois/

And it isn't just those crazy Americans. The Auzzis are in on the act too:

Section 5. Damaging property by graffiti. (1) A person must not destroy, damage or deface the property of another person by graffiti without that other person's consent. Penalty: a fine of $24,000 and imprisonment for 2 years, but the minimum penalty [is a community order].

Section 7. Selling graffiti implement to child. (1) A person must not sell a graffiti implement to a child. Penalty: (a) for a first offence, a fine of $6,000;

https://www.goodbyegraffiti.wa.gov.au/Police/Graffiti-and-th...

> Graffiti is dying because of decades of insane, albeit selective, enforcement. It just isn't worth the risks

From the perspective of the policy makers it's probably considered a success to set penalties that manage to effectively deter a crime? Though the penalties (especially jail time) seem pretty over the top.

You could just kill people on site. That might have an even stronger effect.

Just because it works doesn't mean it's a good idea.

> Google "jailed for writing on a school desk"

This English article, in an English publication, reports on research in England from an English university published in an English journal

Why is the US specific "school to prison pipeline" in anyway relevant?

Do some google research:

https://www.charnwood.gov.uk/files/documents/graffiti_the_fa...

Graffiti is also an expression of youth culture, something on which the US has great influence. And UK lawmakers, looking for similar results, are adopting the US approach to such crimes.

If I understand correctly, this article is just saying that there is a shift in graffiti from quantity to quality as people focus on creating better pieces that can be seen by many people online rather than being seen in person?

That seems like a great shift. Higher quality with the same (if not greater) level of exposure. What's the downside? Streets stay cleaner too, and less people get in trouble for a "harmless" crime.

The article also compares Banksy to Selena, I'm familiar with Banksy, but who is Selena?

I wonder if the next transition is to move away from physical graffiti entirely to digital graffiti (imagine a Wii remote style paint can directed at a tablet) -- as hardware prices fall this could be increasingly affordable, even for those with lower income, and definitely more affordable than getting in trouble with the law.

> I'm familiar with Banksy, but who is Selena?

Probably Selena Gomez:

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/03/selena-gomez-ins...

Oh god no... Selena Quintanilla.

She died in 1995 and Selena Gomez is apparently the most followed account on Instagram. So, I am guessing that Gomez is the better answer. Only old fogies know who the hell Selena Quintanilla was (old fogey here, so, yes, I know the name -- but it doesn't seem like the best explanation here).

That's certainly possible, but you have to consider that comparing Selena and Banksy is apt, while comparing Selena Gomez and an underground graffiti artist would be... bizarre.

> comparing Selena and Banksy is apt

How come?

Banksy bought graffiti art into mainstream and Selena brought Tejano music into mainstream?

Just a guess.

But was does Tejano music have to do with the internet or instagram?

The full quote is "In other words, kids these days are less Banksy and more Selena." I am familiar with both Selenas and side with Mz. It isn't a comparison, it is a contrast.

Look at the context. The previous paragraph talks about how kids are making a name for themselves on Instagram and Youtube instead of on the streets. Selena Gomez made a name for herself on Instagram and Youtube.

Selena Quintanilla is still the one more referred to by only her first name. Despite Selena Gomez being much more relevant in the mainstream, a Google search for "Selena" still turns up results almost exclusively (excluding news) results for Quintanilla.

The context here is everything - including the zeitgeist. It's Selena Gomez.

(FWIW I'm not American and have never heard of Selena Quintanilla before who seems to be a very US/Mexico centric person and The Register is a British publication so...)

Digital "graffiti" would be purely an imitation of style and tools, though - I'm pretty sure that at least some of the appeal of graffiti is that you're not supposed to be painting there and could get in trouble for it, and also the fact that it places your mark on a definite bit of physical space. The latter is the only reason I can think of for e.g. tagging.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selena

was an American singer, songwriter, spokesperson, model, actress, and fashion designer. Called the Queen of Tejano music, her contributions to music and fashion made her one of the most celebrated Mexican-American entertainers of the late 20th century. Billboard magazine named her the "top Latin artist of the '90s" and the "best selling Latin artist of the decade". Media outlets called her the "Tejano Madonna" for her clothing choices.[a] She also ranks among the most influential Latin artists of all-time and is credited for catapulting a music genre into the mainstream market.[6][7]

Did you just google "Selena" and paste the first Wikipedia result?

Because I doubt that all the rage among the hip, young kids of today is a Tejano singer who died in 1995.

She's a huge icon in the South Western states. It has a lot to do with larger Hispanic populations. I grew up listening to her. At this point she's become a cool "retro" 90's touchstone.

...And yet she's a good comparison when looking at Bansky... while Selena Gomez is a Disney product of no great note.

"This according to researchers at Manchester Metropolitan University in England, who said that as Instagram and YouTube have become more popular methods to share art, fewer young people are taking to the streets to make a name for themselves. In other words, kids these days are less Banksy and more Selena."

Banksy is being used to represent graffiti. Selena is being used to represent Instagram. Selena Gomez is the more reasonable assumption than Selena Quintanilla to represent Instagram since Selena Gomez has the most Instagram followers for any user.

Gomez may be a logical assumption but she has never been mononymous in the media; unlike Selena Quintanilla. It could be that the article is assuming that is the case? I am aware of 'both' Selenas but the elder is the only mononymous one. So it's a confusion of references.

Counter example: On the April cover of Vogue, Selena Gomez is referred to as Selena.

Possible salient point: Was her picture on the cover?

Given that she's featured on the cover, providing only her first name isn't in any way ambiguous.

http://www.vogue.com/slideshow/selena-gomez-april-vogue-cove...

Speaking as a millennial, all of my friends would immediately assume "Selena" means "Selena Gomez" in nearly any context. I've never heard of Selena Quintanilla.

If you don't know who Selena Quintanilla is, you might not a millennial. Perhaps you are Generation Z?

Aye, laddie, 'tis no true scotsman who doesn't know Selena!

I didn't realize I was on the tail end of millennials, but I was born in '93 and Selena died when I was one.

Old fogie here.

Selena Quintanilla went by the mononym 'Selena' and was a very popular Tejano singer in the early 90s. She was, very sadly, murdered at a motel in 1995 at age 23 by the president of her fan club when she confronted her about embezzling money.

Said women received life in prison for said murder.

There was a biopic movie made about Selena which was Jennifer Lopez's first role as an actress(1) (playing Selena, of course!) produced, in part, by her father. It was played all the time on Lifetime/Lifetime-esque channels around the turn of the century. Really, this movie was played -all the time-. I probably saw it at least 10 times just because it was on TV and there wasn't much else to do.

Any reference to just "Selena" I would assume was her because she was the only one who went by that monoynm. Gomez was never "Selena," she was "Selena Gomez."

In fact, in seems like Selena Gomez was actually named after Selena Quintanilla. At least according to Gomez herself.

(1) After, of course, her time as a Fly Girl. Which is performing, but not acting.

She has the largest Instagram following in the world, that seems to be of note.

"Spring Breakers" was not a uninteresting movie to act in and "13 Reasons Why" seems like a break out hit to have produced.

I doubt that article was targeting 'hip, young kids' who wouldn't get the reference though. Selena when used as a mononym as far as I've ever seen has never been used to reference Selena Gomez (they typically always use her last name) and has always been used to reference Selena Quintanilla. Selena Gomez own name may even be some parental homage to Quintanilla considering how old Gomez is. Even Banksy has been active since the 90s.

You are correct! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selena_Gomez#1992.E2.80.932006... "Gomez was named after Tejano singer and actress Selena Quintanilla-Pérez, who died in 1995."

Come to California (or Arizona, or Texas) and ask. I think you'd be surprised.

I lived in Texas from 1994 until 2011 or so - moved there when I was ten - and while I didn't really run around with a crowd that listened to much Tejano music, I have never once heard her mentioned.

Admittedly, her death took place before I was fully fluent in English - it's entirely possible that the wave of mourning had already ended by the time I would have really become cognizant of her.

Don't know what to tell you. I was living in San Diego at the time, and talk about her was everywhere. For years. And I'm not a Tejano music fan, it's just something you couldn't avoid if you lived/worked in the area.

That being said, I was already at the end of college/entering the workforce when she died, so like you said, I was probably at the right age to hear about it.

I can tell you than the last time I visited family in SD was last year, and there were still Selena posters/pictures/etc all over the place in the little corner stores.

Selena is timeless.

As a resident of Oakland CA, easily one of the graffiti capitals of the world, my take on this is a pretty simple one. Super aggressive buffing campaigns by the city.

Businesses on Broadway in Oakland will actually be fined if they don't paint over new graffiti in a timely matter. When a writer knows he will be buffed over within days if not hours he will probably look for more low key spots that will last longer and actually be seen by peers.

Anecdotally it also seems like there are way more legal walls around town now. Spots where businesses pay the better street artists to do big murals that less established writers won't write over.

Anecdotally, It does seem like graffiti art is all but gone, at least in New York City. I wouldn't blame Instagram though. The real estate industry has pretty much scrubbed the place clean and defacement of their overpriced yuppie enclaves is a big no-no, even in the eyes of millennials. And with places like 5 Pointz gone, there is really no inspiration. Will something like graffiti you need volume to produce quality.

There also seems to be a priority and focus on monetization from any of these successful alternative artists. Spraying buildings doesn't produce money. Designing your own limited edition Nike's does.

Don't know if I agree with this assertion, but food for thought:

“…as far as power is concerned, the streets are dead capital! Nothing of value to the power elite can be found on the streets, nor does this class need control of the streets to efficiently run and maintain state institutions. For [civil disobedience] to have any meaningful effect, the resisters must appropriate something of value to the state. Once they have an object of value, the resisters have a platform from which they may bargain for (or perhaps demand) change.” http://www.critical-art.net/books/ecd/ecd2.pdf

I'm glad. Graffiti is a big net negative.

Nuance: most casual graffiti is shit (ruining property), a fraction though is a beautiful addition through art and/or political metaphor.

If you want to do art, do art on your own property. If it's good, you'll be able to find a property owner who's happy to have your stuff there.

And if you don't have any property?

Is public property part of 'your own' property?

If you don't have any property buy some canvas and paint like a respectable artist. And no, public property is not your property.

Most of what you think is "good graffiti" is probably done with permission or paid.

The world needs more Banksy's: graffiti that makes people reflect on inequality and tyranny.

"Graffiti is dying because of decades of insane, albeit selective, enforcement. It just isn't worth the risks."

It's good news & the title makes it some sort of experience they're missing out on?

I live in Bristol, and graffiti is definitely not dying out here.

[1] http://www.upfest.co.uk/

[2] https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bristol+graffiti&tbm=isch

man they hate lazy millennials so much they even make fun of them when they are not committing crimes!

There's been a recent renaissance of street art in Bangkok, Chiang Mai and Penang. A few walls in Shenzhen too. If you want to meet some of the artists, check out Jam near Sathorn when there's an event on (annual Bang Rak art district events are a good bet).

>Lazy millennials can't even be bothered to commit petty crime

Was that subtitle really necessary or are they being tongue-in-cheek with that statement...?

It's the Register, so... Yes and yes.

Good. Graffiti is unsightly and low brow. I don't want to look at some "street artists" trash.

I guess they haven't seen San Francisco lately

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