Ask HN: Career advice for a new grad

The moment you take your first job, it starts defining your career. If you tend to lean towards C++, I'd go there. Otherwise, in 5 years time you may end up being a well paid senior "modern" stack developer who really wish he could work on low level stuff instead. At this point it'll be too late though - it's hard start over and take a pay cut from say 100k back to 40k.

Having said that, the "modern" stack is definitely safer. The C++ market is great for really awesome, technical people, but there's not that many offers for people who are average. With modern tech it's the other way around - it is generally easier to use so there's less need for awesome people (which can make it boring if you are very talented), but it's very safe (in terms of job security) for average people. Also, in the C/C++ world you'll be competing against guys who've been building up their domain knowledge for 20-30 years...

My story is that I went with the safe side and my salary and working conditions are excellent now. The jobs themselves are completely uninspiring though. On the other hand, I'm not sure if I had the mental firepower to be a really great c++ programmer (say, senior engine programmer at a game company), as I get tired rather easily. So, even now (10+ years into my career), I'm not sure if I made the right call.

Re: London, it's huge, feels old/dirty (when I touch a building's wall, I wonder how many hundreds of people and dogs have pissed on that spot in the past), crowded and absurdly expensive. On the other hand, it is great for job hopping, so it might be wise to stay there in the formative years of your career.

Over the years, how has your perspective on the stack + the type of work you're doing changed? I feel like due to my age I don't have the context to make a decision based on factors that will actually matter in the long term.

It definitely changed, I started with what's easy to learn, available and well-paying, and that meant Java jobs - I thought that programming is just fun enough to make these jobs cool. Now I seriously doubt that.

Hi from Ottawa. If you are moving back here for a job, why wouldn't you move closer to work? Also note the new light rail system is under construction, so that could also factor into where you might live wrt where you work. Long commutes may be standard in other places, but unless you want to live in the burbs for family reasons and then have a commute to work, I'd advise against that in Ottawa (or anywhere!).

I've not lived in London, but grew up in Montreal and lived in Toronto. I've been fortunate enough to visit many US and European metropolitan areas. In saying all that, I really find Ottawa to be a nice-sized small city. It's a government town for sure, but there is also a lot of Aero & Defence (where I ended up) as well as high tech (Shopify, Apple, Amazon, QNX/Ford's new self driving car centre). It's big enough to have pro sports teams, but small enough that you can be in the country in 20 minutes if you want to. No 16 lanes of highway anywhere in sight, either.

At the end of the day though, try not to worry about it too much. As others have said in this thread, the first job will define a path in life, but so will the second job, or that next person you talk to on the bus, it's all a big random walk. You are fortunate to have two interesting opportunities in front of you, so have fun and good luck.

I'd be working in Kanata and would prefer to live somewhere closer to downtown, hence the estimated commute times (by public transit).

Thank you for adding some perspective. It seems whatever choice I end up making, my brain will find a way to rationalize it post-factum.

I'd go with the London offer solely based on "man, I'd really love to work with that person". In the early stages of your career, it's best to optimize for people. The best investment you can make is work with people you admire and want to learn from. In the long run, relationships matter more than anything else. All other things - stack, languages, cost of living - are temporal. Quality of people and relationships are valuable long term. Good luck!

You will do OK in London with 40k as your starting salary (if you are single). Senior Python devs would do north of 55k here. Though be prepared you will move flats several times before you land at your perfect spot.

London is huge, so is the market. So is the competition :-)

I have never been to Ottawa. I have moved to London 7 years ago, feel free to ask more questions if you have some.

Where did you move from? Curious to hear about things you like and dislike about living and working in London.

It all depends on your circumstances. If you are single then London will work well for you, and if you like travel you have all other countries at hand - Germany, Spain, France, Italy, Switzerland.. Very diverse and very colourful. And it feels like London is a startups heart of Europe (at least this is what I feel compared to Geneva, Munich or Berlin). Some people will argue in light of Brexit but I personally think this will work for better to both Europe and Great Britain. A step back towards what EU used to be (in a good way).

To rent a whole flat for yourself will cost you 1k+ PCM (that's flat, you need to remember about council tax and TV tax and utilities, so probably closer to 1150+ PCM), you will be better to go for a room (did I mention it all depends if you are single? and you meet new people too)

Taxes here depend on your formal situation with the company. If you go PAYE then you'll probably see about ~30k of what you earn. Go and look at pay calculators. But once you get your permanent stay your option might look better. Also you mentioned 40k is a starting point, so you'll end up on better wage once your probation/review is done. Maybe your employer would go for paying your flat and travel expenses which would work better than doing this for yourself.

I would try to evaluate which option (Canada or UK) look better from your pocket perspective and then would look into tech and future perspective. Python seems to be quite on top at the moment, though C++ is not too bad neither :-) so not simple choices here!

---

Just spotted you edited your question.

Q- Would it be irresponsible to give up the PR in Canada and move away?

A- I don't know :-) What's the PR in Canada?

Q- Would I later regret not moving to London in my early twenties?

A- older you get more difficult it becomes.

Q- What's more important: work or people?

A- growth. And that might mean either work, or people, or both, or neither - depending what's your end goal.

Q- How important is compensation for the first job out of college?

A- you would not (probably) consider moving if you was not offered a job, would you? Compensation is important but at some point you get to the glass ceiling and you need to think about other options. You need to value yourself, does not matter what point in your life you are at.

Think what you want to be doing in 1/3/5 years from now. That might give you the right perspective.

---

Oh and commute - it is not unusual to see people commuting 60+ minutes (one way). You need to target the area near your office or near the fast tube (some are faster than the other). I live in suburbs and it takes me only 30 minutes to commute :-) it used to take 70 minutes when I was in zone 3 (but I was on slow line).

Also as far as I'm aware it's about 5 years before you get permanent residency in UK. So this would be long term plans and you might decide to go back once you are fed up of being here :-)