Young Americans Are Killing Marriage | Hacker News Reader

Young Americans Are Killing Marriage

bloomberg.com

That title is ridiculous. I just skimmed the article, but do they think that young americans want to live with their parents? It's all just an affect the recession we're still coming out of. People want to have a stable platform before having a family, and that's harder to have when the job market is down.

The subtitle is much better: "Millennials are lagging behind on the traditional markers of adulthood."

Also:

"There's also no sign that young people today are lazier than three decades ago. In 1980, 74 percent of baby boomers reported that they had worked in the past week, the Census data show. In 2015, slightly more millennials, 77 percent, said they'd been to work in the past week."

TL;DR: It seems to me that this is a misleading evaluation of the data. It appears to me that more people are being financially supported by their parents.

In 1980 the unemployment rate (according to a quick google search) was around 7%. In 2015 it was around 5%. If I understand correctly, the unemployment rate measures the number of people actively looking for work. So I guess this means that in both cases the population between ages 25-35 who are not working, but also are not looking is pretty close to 20% (!?!?!)

So, if I look at the pretty graphs in the article, the percentage of married people in 1980 is nearly 70%, while it is roughly 40% in 2015. It's frustrating because I have no idea if they are counting "equivalent to married" status here (or if that's a thing in the US). The number of people living with their parents (and presumably not in an "equivalent to married" situation) is about 10% in 1980 and about 20% in 2015.

So what I'm getting at here is that some part of the 20% that are not looking for work is because their spouse (or equivalent) is working, some part is because the parents are working, and some part is because the people are independently wealthy or living on the streets.

I couldn't get poverty rates for 1980, but it appears to have been relatively consistent for the last 30-40 years (with a reported dip in the 1990's). So, it appears to me that, indeed, there are more people being supported by their parents in 2015, while in 1980 there were more people supported by their spouses. I think this probably does indicated a problem in the future, though less to do with the institution of marriage and more to do with the financial outlook of the population.

Aside: for an organisation built on financial data, Bloomberg publishes some pretty awful articles data-wise.

I can tell you one thing: I really don't care to ever find a wife and don't care to leave my parent's house anytime soon. College is just too expensive to live anywhere but my parent's house. I need to get loans from them because student loans only cover half of my tuition.

If life has taught me anything it is that present me has very little idea about what future me wants.

Except I'm a bit more incompatible with people.

The recession is over and employment levels are back to what they were in the 90s (yes even underemployment). If marriage rates are still low then something else is to blame.

Source: https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS13327709

Supplementary factor: growing up hearing that 50% of marriages will fail and then seeing what a bad divorce does to everyone involved.

As a man, I've heard enough horror stories to never want to marry.

In the recent come back tour a comedian, Dave Chapelle, said marriage is a bad contract that you should never sign. He's right. Marriage in the US is an extremely shitty deal from the perspective of finance and business.

We should also note that Dave Chappelle has been married for over 15 years.

yes but for his own dialogues, he is kind of in an open marriage, so it is much easier (I mean the guy talks about going to the club, and trying to get other women) I dont know many married man at the club chasing women and their wifes being ok with it.

I am not saying its wrong, just saying a marriage like that does not seem really difficult to last 15 years.

From the perspective of finance and business, there are a lot of things that I do that are extremely shitty deals. Most things that I do aren't done because they're profitable or career-advancing, though.

I just got out a 1 year relationship. Even that cost alot to clear up, just having them move in. Clearing that up was very difficult. Something I think with caution now.

Wasn't that fact debunked (oh look fake news from the 80s! Nothing new under the sun I guess)? Though your point still stands- the attack on marriage was successful I suppose.

US divorce rates have declined since the 1980s. Depending on how you look at the numbers, 50% is still a reasonable estimate.[1] Researchers attribute the decline in divorces partly to people being more cautious about marriage.

[1] https://familyinequality.wordpress.com/2016/06/08/life-table...

Looking at it historically[1], it would appear that marriage rates have been declining steadily since the '80s, as have the subsequent divorces. It would appear that the baby boomer generation didn't pass on the desire to marry that they inherited. They also didn't pass on legal racism, having enough money to buy something before you buy it, leaded fuel, and a world without space travel or widespread nuclear proliferation among wealthy countries.

>the attack on marriage was successful I suppose.

I propose that things like marriage cannot be attacked; marriage is a choice between people. It is a covenant, and its meaning is unique between any couple. The children of boomers aren't reacting to someone slandering the idea of such a covenant, we're reacting to seeing what our parents did with such covenants. Caution is merited.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/23/144-y...

Growing up in the wrong 50% of families certainly doesn't help either.

Watching my parents' resentment towards each other gradually build up over the years, eventually resulting in a messy divorce, is definitely not an experience I'd want to put any kid through, much less my own.

Even the thought of ending up in a marriage like that terrifies me to no end, to the point that I'd much rather to just never marry and never have kids than to risk following my parents' footsteps.

Luckily enough, I have a great job, and some great friends to keep me company when I need it, so I'm certainly in no rush to take a gamble with the rest of my life any time soon.

Since in America we no longer need kids to till our fields, pick rags or otherwise make a living, there's no economic incentive to having kids. So if you have a kid by choice, you probably feel at least optimistic enough that you'll be able to raise your kid under a roof.

But if you're always hearing that your generation is worse off than your parents and grandparents (in some way), that has to discourage a lot of people from having kids, and so there's less incentive to marry. Not zero incentive, but, one incentive has been weakened.

And then, if you actually are worse off than your parents, evidence being that you're living with your parents, that has to also discourage yourself from wanting to marry (can't afford to move out, don't want to honeymoon under my Star Wars poster) or discourage someone else from marrying you (don't want to honeymoon under their Star Wars poster).

Uh. No. Sorry. The previous generation murdered marriage. Who wants to be under the sword of Damocles every day...

Better birth control is probably a major factor that is often forgotten. The efficacy rates of a Progestogen IUD paired with a condom are high enough to eliminate fear of an unexpected child. I assume eliminating that fear removes a marriage incentive for many people.

This seems like a necessary next step in the iconoclasm of western civilization. Like all social and cultural norms of our era, marriage must be called into question. We (society) will question its value and determine whether or not its purported value still exists. I think it does, but the only way to really convince most people is to remove it and see what that does to society. The same goes for gender, democracy, religion, and other structures we take for granted in the modern world. They will first be destroyed, then either rebuilt with greater purity or discarded altogether. These changes may be harsh, damaging, or even violent, but that's the course we've all chosen (not me personally, but the modern world in general). These changes will happen, so I am not surprised to see these results.

The headline of this piece seems clickbaitey in a way.The article just seems to be several loosely correlated statistics.

To me, being a evil lazy millennial, it sort of feels like we inherited a scorched and salted earth. We're trying to till the land to the best we can. But it's not working.

On living with parents/home owners. I did that until 27 to save money. I then bought a house, as per my prior comments worst mistake in my life. It's not just me several of my friends, bought homes and are in a similar boat. The general wisdom I hear from people in my age range about owning a home is F that noise. As I've said it can work, but be smart on it.

So due to rising real estate prices. What do you do stay with parents, room mates, or live pay check to pay check. Our living situation has changed drastically over the past several years. Jobs are centralizing in certain areas. While jobs leave another area. I can attest to companies leaving one area, killing a city.

Continuing on that I feel we're in a fight or flight mode. There have been other articles about the increase of male suicides, burn out, increased therapy attendance, decrease in intimacy etc. I mean I didn't grow up in the 80s. But were there a plethora of articles like that at the time.

We are not staying in one place long enough. A job is no longer a guarantee like it was. It's now you pay me enough to get by, my bills but that about it. So it sorta comes to do we dig in and fight for what we want. Or try and fly to some where better. Then we start life because of college with one sword over our head.

Then we have dating, relationship and social dynamic changes. Technology has changed how we socialize and interact. Now we are no longer tied to just our group of friends. We can access anyone, a myriad of people.

Dating has become almost a shopping experience. I've had a number of friends rattle off a list of ingredients they want out of their partner. There is nothing inherently wrong with that. Comparatively older love tales just seemed simpler. I've also seen more non monogamous relationships crop up. Which I'm still trying to determine if that's due to more relaxed social standards, the aforementioned, or I hang out with esoteric people.

Moving to kids, I know a number of people. Who fall into the we don't want to raise kids in this world, finances, health, or I don't where I'll be 6 months from now. Doing the math for retirement on a 6 figure salary, home with 1k mortgage, and a wife. With an intent of one vacation a year, three date nights a month, and retirement savings. Kids didn't factor into the budget.

I didn't grow up with many broken homes. But I had friends who did. My concern with marriage now is more the sue happy nature. I also feel like I live on a tectonic plate, and don't know which way it's going to shift next.

I'm not crying that millennials have it difficult, or are overwhelmed. I just dislike these articles shifting blame solely on the younger generation. We are at an inflection point. Alot, alot has changed over the past two decades. Yet we're still trucking on with standards of living from several decades ago.

Interesting tidbit: marriage rate has dropped by about 30% while living with child rate dropped by only 15%.

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