4-Day Fast | Hacker News Reader

4-Day Fast

48things.com

41 pointsjmbake51 comments

The whole amino-acids thing that the author talked about made me cringe a little bit. "Amino-acids" is just basically the fancy word for "proteins" (I know there are amino-acids that aren't proteins, but let's not be nitpicking here) and in turns, "proteins" is just another fancy word for "shit we eat everyday." It doesn't matter that much what form it is (meat, plants, milk, powder), when digested in your body, it's proteins. Proteins give your body energy. Proteins are not some magical alternative shit to your food, it's actually food.

"Oh I don't eat, but I '''take in''' amino-acids" is like saying "Oh I don't drink, but '''take in''' dihydrogen monoxide."

Haha bingo exactly what I was thinking:

>so I decided to take intra-workout amino acids

otherwise known as 'food'

Joking aside though totally supportive of this guys approach and all the best to him. I've recently gone whole food plant based, and definitely interested in introducing fasting too.

Yep - in the intermittent fasting community, BCAAs (which the author was probably taking) are known to kick you out of the fasting state.

Literally anything except water does that.

> Steve Jobs was a regular faster.

He also died of cancer at a fairly young age after trying to treat it with diet instead of medical treatment. Probably not the best health role model.

I cringed a little when I read that.

why? It's true.

No doubt Steve Jobs is a role model as an Innovator. But as a health role model, not so much.

It's sad so many people put in all the effort of a vegan diet, then end up with worse health outcomes.

On the other hand, a vegan diet based on whole foods, not processed like oils and flours, and avoiding too much omega-6 oil and sugar has an astonishing range of health benefits.

I'm surprised this site hasn't been posted / discussed on HN before:

http://nutritionfacts.org

There are health benefits to many diets. That doesn't always outweigh the harm.

Historically, we can trace our brain development alongside evidence of the use of fire. I would never use the raw-food diet because science tells me it's not adequate. Regardless, it may have health benefits.

When you have a life span of ~35 years, hey, eat all the meat and dairy you like.

Myth.

Child mortality pulls down the average:

http://www.livescience.com/10569-human-lifespans-constant-2-...

While adult life expectancy has increased somewhat thanks to sanitation and antibiotics, there has never been a time when adult life expectancy was a mere 35 years.

Super interesting, thanks

I don't know why the author used that example. The point of fasting is nutritional ketosis and Jobs was known as a fruitarian for a large chunk of his life which is at direct odds with ketosis. Fasting does have some beneficial outcomes for cancer patients: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fasting-might-boo...

The best source of fasting benefits I've found is Dr. Dom D'Agostino. He's a huge proponent of occasional fasts and the ketogenic diet.

To be fair, pancreatic cancer doesn't offer much hope even with treatment.

Steve Jobs had a relatively rare pancreatic neuroendocrine tumor which is more receptive to treatment than other pancreatic cancers. And then instead of treating it he went on a diet.

Steve had the only form that was treatable and didn't treat it until it was too late.

"In spite of pleas from family and friends, he tried to cure himself through acupuncture sessions, drinking special fruit juices, visiting "spiritualists" and using other treatments he found on the internet.

Some cancer experts have said that Mr Jobs may have extended his life or even survived if he had promptly tackled his cancer aggressively with scientifically proven medical treatments."

I fast for three days before I travel. I've done so since reading[0] that it might strengthen the immune response, and I loathe illness while traveling.

Frankly, I am just happy to see HN talking about diet and health. My my inclination is to believe any medication or therapy must either overcome my diet or support it. I can think of nothing with a bigger impact on our physiochemistry.

0. https://news.usc.edu/63669/fasting-triggers-stem-cell-regene...

Can we contrast fasting like the op is describing (with coconut milk, protein supplements and bone broth) vs. fasting with literally zero calories ?

If you're pursuing "weight loss" or fat loss or general fitness/wellness/lightness, I think any form of fasting is useful and interesting.

However, it seems to me that if you are optimizing for starving cancer cells, forcing weak cells into apoptosis, depleting your sugar stores, resetting insulin resistance, etc. ... that is to say, if you're pursuing the more interesting, second order benefits of fasting - you really should be doing the zero calorie kind.

I do a 24 hour fast once weekly with just (black) coffee and water ... I guess I cannot speak to how difficult zero calories would be for 2-4 days ...

Consuming anything else than water will actually break the fast. Yes that includes black coffee.

People who "fast" while consuming coffee, broth, exogenous ketones, and other caloric substances still experience the benefits from caloric restriction. Still not actually fasting though.

"People who "fast" while consuming coffee, broth, exogenous ketones, and other caloric substances still experience the benefits from caloric restriction. Still not actually fasting though."

If the coffee is black it has zero calories and is identical (in terms of caloric restriction) to tea or water ... so I don't think it belongs in the same group as broth ...

> I guess I cannot speak to how difficult zero calories would be for 2-4 days

I can, it's not difficult at all. I've done 7 days, no multivitamins or supplements of any kind. I did allow myself two espresso shots over lunch, but I can't image that counts much towards caloric intake.

Well, I lost 6.7 pounds and 1.9% body fat during my 4-day fast.

How much of that went back on again shortly afterwards, though? I have sometimes lost several pounds very quickly as a result of dehydration, but this is generally not healthy and the loss is temporary. I've sometimes been sick and not had much of an appetite, resulting in staying in bed for several days and hardly eating anything. Again, I lost several pounds, but even with a modest and very healthy food intake for the next few days, much of the weight then went back on again as my body recovered.

Rather than focusing on intermittent fasting(and other fads), I believe people should focus on adoption of healthy lifestyle long term. Nothing can replace a lifestyle of right diet and moderate exercise.

That is the really important question here. I wish the author would answer you.

I believe fasting has long-term health benefits but I am not at all sure it can actually help with regular weight loss and general health re-balancing.

I enjoy reading stories about people fasting. Someday I may try it myself, but I know I tend toward a sort of sensory disconnect, so I'm biased toward such hyperbolic stuff. I wish I could be more like some of my friends who are more balanced in their routine; fasting is foreign to them, but they are naturally fit and kind of Zen in their own way. They can just do "normal" very well and no experiments seem necessary.

Well, anatomically modern humans evolved around discontinuous food availability, so fasting may play a more important role than we think in our metabolism.

For example insulin and the growth hormones interact, and being well fed can have counter-intuitive consequences.

e.g: Overfeeding kids might be counterproductive for their growth.

It's the exogenous ketones bit that I'm interested in. Dr Richard Veech has had some interesting publications out on dextro-betahydroxybutyrate [0]. In short, d-bhb is like an entirely separate macronutrient (not fat/carb/protein/alcohol) that is readily metabolizable and has higher thermodynamic efficiency- this translates to lower-metabolic damage post brain trauma, much better underwater breath holding times, something like a couple % power output increase for athletes, etc.

Thing is, the d-bhb production process is really expensive, and it's also pretty unpalatable (and needs to be eaten en masse).

[0] http://drveech.com/

Fasting is definitely underappreciated. As are cold showers and deep breathing a la Wim Hof.

Hot baths are also good for your body. Any activity where your body has to work hard to establish homeostasis is a form of exercise.

Like.. almost dying? ;)

Ah, the Saiyan way.

Reference: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5yV29Kvy5VjxL385H0X...

Fasting seems to get a lot of appreciation on hn.

It's good that fasting is gaining acceptance. But I also don't like shoving it down other peoples throat.

Let them take it up and discover the benefits themselves.

    "But I also don't like shoving it down other peoples throat."

Yeah, it would be pretty hard to get into fasting if other people did this.

Anecdotal but I noticed that when I travel abroad for over a week I always lose some weight (enough to be considered weight loss and stay for a while). Even if I feel like I make unhealthier choices during my trip. Is it possible that a change of diet habits has the similar effects and essentially all we need is constantly changing routine?

I definitely sleep poorly on days when I fast. Often I wake up 2-3 hours earlier than usual and am wide awake.

Do you feel tired that day?

Yes, I feel about the same as if I had gone to bed late the night before.

Hey Guy! Just read your post. Can you tell me whether Ketones/amino acid supplements are supposed to prevent you from your muscles breaking down? I am losing crazy muscle (lost like 20+ pounds in 4 months) and would love a solution to prevent it from happening.

See a doctor. This isn't normal.

There are two main sources of fuel for the human body: ketones (derived from fat) and glucose (derived from carbohydrates).

Ketones aren't a fuel, they are byproduct of burning fatty acids.

As an analogy, Ketones aren't wood (fuel), they are ashes (byproduct).

beta-hydroxybutarate, a ketone, is the primary energy source while in a fasted state, and is analogous to glucose in use by organs. It directly provides energy to the brain and the heart.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta-Hydroxybutyric_acid

If you want the fast to have a detoxing effect, skip the 2 - 4 cups of coffee per day

please explain

There is no such thing as a "detox". It's a myth.

http://www.webmd.com/diet/a-z/detox-diets

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/dec/05/detox-m...

Breaking a 4 day fast with a starbucks sandwich is so 2017...

->"The biggest thing that this fast has taught me is just how much I eat out of habit or boredom instead of actual hunger." . For some people(like me) it takes only a bit of education and careful diet plan to realise this. For the author it took a 4-day fasting.

Kind of odd how the author reads into his sugar free gum and and ketosis so deeply but didn't say anything about missing two regular workouts and losing so much weight.

The weight loss is completely normal and expected. A lot of the weight came from water bound up in the starch reserves, it'll come right back after eating carbs for a few days. Similar weight "loss" would be seen transitioning into a diet with <100g carbs per day but with normal, or even excessive caloric intake.

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