Hacker News Reader

Comment by colanderman | Hacker News Reader

That's adversarial thinking. If the man and woman are in a trusting relationship, the question changes from one of "power" to responsibility.

Today, most reversible contraceptive methods (pill, rhythm, IUD, abortion) rely on the woman owning responsibility (one which they may be unwilling or unable to carry out). Male contraception relieves women of that burden.

View on HN

Male contraception relieves women of that burden

You would think so, but... there are women (maybe a lot of them) who think the loss of power over conception would be bad for women [0]. Read the column. I don't know about you, but it gives me a very queasy feeling. Like there is some subtext that this woman believes she should be able to force parenthood on an unwilling partner.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2006/apr/28/malepi...

Contraception isn't a zero sum game. Giving men more contraceptive power doesn't take anything away from women.

You are right, but that's not what the article the GP linked is about. It's based on two (IMO very flawed) arguments, one, that men having the option of birth control forces women to trust them (which may be true, but is a problem faced by men today), and two, the – quite creepy – belief that women should be able to unilaterally decide when a couple starts having offspring. (As if men were not legally beholden to care for their offspring.)

The argument in the first paragraph of that article addresses the issue of having to choose between distrusting partners, or being vulnerable to those who lie about using birth control. There's maybe some merit in that, but today, men face the same problem.

The rest of that article is… creepy. That's way more than subtext.

I can't even...

> At the moment it is the woman who retains control over the moment at which that melting in the bones feeling is allowed to over-take the firm "no this would ruin my life" feeling in the head.

Is not the whole point of contraception insurance againt emotional losses of control?

A lot of sex happens outside of trusting relationships. The woman with whom I lost my virginity tried to trick me into being the father for a child that wasn't mine. It most likely isn't representative but as a polyamorous man, with financial stability, I can assure you that a lot of women I've met would gladly have an "accident" with me. I sleep easier knowing I had a vasectomy.

I don't deny that, but the majority of women are not so manipulative. The GP's blanket claim "the argument that women would do more for male birth control is somewhat strange" would assume that the majority of women are so immoral. They most certainly are not.

The thinking may be adversarial but it's equally valid. That you think you are in a trusting relationship doesn't mean that trust is well-placed or even mutual.

It's not an either-or question. Both statements about male contraception are true: it relieves women of the responsibility (by allowing couples to decide to place the burden on the man) but it also gives control to men that previously only women had.

Giving men power of their own birth control does not lessen the power women have, except in the case of coerced trust (i.e., "trust that I have birth control since it's now possible, even though I really don't"), or in the case of wanting the power to deny contraception, which I think many would agree seems unethical, given the legal responsibilities men have to their offspring.

It doesn't lessen the power women have, it just gives the same power to men. Specifically we're talking about the power to decide whether to risk conception (assuming it's not mutually desired) or not in advance to the sexual encounter.

Yes, lying about contraception in order to trick a man into getting you pregnant is unethical, but it's not unheard of. Women are humans (duh), some humans do unethical things, some of those humans are women, using pregnancy as leverage.

Personally I wouldn't think this behaviour is very widespread (although I have heard women joke about it being an option -- not implying any of them would actually consider it) but considering the significance of the consequences, I think it's understandable why some men might value this risk far greater than its actual prevalence would suggest, regardless of whether this risk assessment is rational or not. The tired meme of the poisoned M&M springs to mind.

> If the man and woman are in a trusting relationship

That's the problem right there...

Reply on news.ycombinator.com