Hacker News Reader

What a lovely little piece with some delightful quotes. Thank you for sharing.

I’ve found that people will fear your enthusiasm and warmth, and wait to hear the price. Which is fair. We’ve all been drawn into someone’s love only to find out that we couldn’t afford it.

Well I wasn't there of course, but all things being equal, if a woman at a party touches you whilst talking, is animated in her discussion, and goes to the trouble of saying out loud that she likes you, well usually that's a good sign that a person is "interested".

Maybe you're in a relationship, maybe you weren't interested anyway but she might have wanted to get your phone number.

I can't quite put a finger on it but "Wow. That sounds hard." potentially risks coming off as patronizing.

I prefer "That's really interesting; what's a day in your life like?" People love talking about this because people spend most of their lives working, so most of their life is work.

I find this to be a good approach too, unless they're in the midst of a PhD program, then they have zero interest in talking about their day cause their dissertation is all-consuming.

Actually most people working on their dissertation love talking about it since that dissertation is practically their entire life. I try to get them to speak in their language and try to understand their world better: how they approached their research, what mistakes they encountered, how they learned from them.

I moved to a city a few years back where it was like every single person I met was a PhD student and none wanted to talk about what they did (some I wouldn't be able to understand anyways, such as astrophysicists, but others I could, if they'd have wanted to talk about it). They'd all mention the general topic, but that's about it. It was quite weird because I happen to share your view and wanted to know more.

Yes, if you're insincere, it's patronizing. So it requires empathy and curiosity.

If done right, it's just like the old Dale Carnegie quote:

You can make more friends in two months by becoming interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you.

I think it depends more on how cynical and/or confident the person you are talking to is. A cynical person will assume you are insincere even if you aren't. An unconfident person will think you're just being polite.

It really, honestly doesn't. A good conversationalist knows how to draw trust from their partner. One of the great benefits of learning how to listen and respond with genuine interest is that you can pierce the walls people put up. There is no one 'key'; it only comes with practice.

Personally, I have never met an adult[1] in my life who can start a sentence with "Wow" and come off as convincing. "Wow" just sets off my bull shit detector (rightly or not).

Albeit that doesn't prove you are wrong. It could also mean I haven't ever met a "good conversationalist" who has used that word with me.

Seeing as I have read "How to Win Friend's An Influence People" (twice) and 90% of the people I know do the exact opposite of what the book suggests, it could indeed be I have never met those people.

It's not that there aren't things they can say that would be convincing, just the specific quote the OP used -- "Wow. That sounds hard” -- would not only be not effective on me, it would be detrimental.

[1] I have to specify adult because I have met children who use it convincingly.

In the original version I heard from him, perhaps on his podcast, he mentioned that he usually uses a stronger exclamation than that but hs a policy of not cursing in whatever publication the written piece appeared in.

When considering soft things like conversational flow, try not to get too focused on the use of any one particular word. Look to the intent behind the phrase. "Wow, that sounds hard" is fundamentally 1) an expression of genuine acknowledgement, and 2) an opening to learn more about what is clearly important to the person you're talking to.

The skill is in finding something about your partner that you can say these things honestly about. You do that, and whatever actual words you use to express it don't really matter that much. The emotional intent behind your words will ring clear.

I disagree. If you're already defensive about your job, you may be prone to misinterpret that statement as sarcasm, even when delivered perfectly.

I imagine there's safer comments or questions you could go with.

You're right, in that there are some people that are minefields. But I do think most people who aren't natural conversationalists greatly overestimate their number. Most folks genuinely want to connect, and it only takes the slightest of pushes to break the ice. Extrovert, introvert... It doesn't really matter, in terms of short-length discussion. People are people.

Round two is likely something like "no, I don't think I could do that, it sounds hard to me. You have skills I don't "

But it has to be genuine. You can't read a script, you have to mean it.

Of course you don't just say that. Recall from OP how mirroring works: you listen, repeat, label/distill. Odds are there is some part of what they said that you'd sincerely be curious to learn more about, that you think you might be able to relate to. (If it was a brief "I'm a ___" response, ask questions about the field to get to that point, etc.) And at some point you spin things positive like "But X part of the job is probably exciting, right?" Which is a segue into what you're passionate about yourself after they answer.

The key is to be genuinely curious and show it in body language. For the first part, approach every conversation as if it was a 100-upvote HN posting "Why X is more complicated than you might think." Right? Don't be fake, just rationally hold back the impulse to be cynical. The second part takes practice, but nodding, mirroring their body language, shoulders back open stance, etc. are a good start, and you can feel good about doing that if you are genuine, which shows. It all comes down to empathy and knowing how to show it.

I agree with you.

But I found the origional Paul Ford source article [1]... and I could be wrong but the way I read it I think it actually is saying to use exactly those words.

[1] https://medium.com/message/how-to-be-polite-9bf1e69e888c#.4c...

"She kept touching me as she talked. I forgave her for that."

Salesmen/Saleswomen know a pat on the back or a touch on the arm can be very disarming. When a stranger touches me purposefully I cannot help but scrutinize the "why?".

Pretty bold of a salesperson to grab your forearm, or other obviously flirtatious moves though. Might even risk the opposite of the intended effect.

Is that common, or is it usually more subtle, like touching your hand when passing a pen?

A touch on the forearm is what I`ve experienced most from saleswomen, a breast press on my arm has occurred more than once. Always* during a negotiation when I was the prospective buyer.

*Excluding social interactions.

They touch you to make you feel something when they say the words.

The pros even touch you at a specific words in their sentence so you subconsciously remember those words.

Uhhh...I find pats on the back from strangers to be incredibly rude, patronizing, and uncomfortable. Do that to me and I'm likely to just walk away but not before saying "don't touch me."

So in return for being "liked" by that woman, the listener had to pretend to be interested in her talk entirely about herself for half an hour? Where she wasn't interested enough to even ask the listeners name?

Sounds like a way to raise her self-esteem at the expense of yours.

Reminds me of Seinfeld's quip about dating being a "whole lot of seeming fascinated"...

> So in return for being "liked" by that woman, the listener had to pretend to be interested in her talk entirely about herself for half an hour?

If the intention was indeed to get the other person to tell something about themselves I'd say it's a fair and successful approach. Plus, you could be genuinely interested in the other person's 30 minute talk. The idea that the interest has to be fake seems to be your conclusion.

I would guess that she was likely to be lonely. Lonely people tend to react that way - show a bit of interest and they can talk for hours. If you have good friends or family around, you already said all of that to them at one point or another - there will be no unburdening. Alternatively she might be female equivalent of an obsessive geek. The constantly touching thing sounds like one of those awkward uncomfortable things.

In any case, she did not said he is the only person in the world she likes nor that this is the only way for someone to make her like him. She just said that she liked him.

Still, it sounds like the paybacks for him were "She kept touching me as she talked. I forgave her for that." and, the knowledge that "I didn’t reveal a single detail about myself, including my name." Amusing.

I often follow up with "I don't know anything about that, can you tell me more?"

that one weird trick...