Uber CEO linked to escort bar visit that resulted in an HR complaint | Hacker News Reader

Uber CEO linked to escort bar visit that resulted in an HR complaint

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75 pointsbdcravens51 comments

may be i didn't get it correctly, why is it exactly a 'scandal' ... going to a escort bar with employees? or then leaving early?? I don't get the scandalous part in there?? out of all this fiasco, I have figured, Uber does have serious HR issues, but i don't appreciate the vendetta campaign that apparently is specifically targeted at defamation of the company, than actually doing anything about it... I am an Asian, even so, a Pakistani, so I clearly don't have a dog in this fight... I am inclined to believe this all began, after Travis joined Trump ... may be I could be wrong? Having said that, I don't want to undermine the legitimate concerns and complaints of the female staff.

Do you need it spelt out for you? Karaoke today, a kiss next time, maybe even a frenchy.

I still don't understand escort or strop clubs. I mean why? Is it the food? If I want to see a half naked woman missing teeth with a meth habit I'll go to Walmart.

> four other men in the group picked out their favorites from a group of numbered women and proceeded downstairs to sing karaoke.

OMFG!!!!

20 years ago, I was in Hong Kong and Macau. The first time I saw this, was my first reaction as well. To my Chinese colleague, it was no big deal.

I thought it interesting how western culture and eastern culture were so different and what was acceptable. I lived in the Far East for 6 months. Very interesting times.

What's interesting to me is the differences in cultures within the US. I live in Missouri, and I actually thought the "OMFG" post above was a joke because what the CEO did was so tame. It's tacky, sure, but not rage-inducing. I take it from the reactions on this site, though, that it would be unacceptable on the coastal regions.

Edit: to those downvoting, could you please explain why? I'm honestly clueless as to why you're downvoting me.

What even is an "escort-karaoke bar?" Karaoke and prostitution don't seem like a remotely believeable mix.

Whatever the case, it seems creepy, I am glad to have deleted my Uber account.

I take it you've never been to Asia? I would usually refrain from continent-wide generalisations, but the KTV lounge/brothel combo is pretty ubiquitous.

http://www.shanghaiexpat.com/phpbbforum/what-is-a-ktv-t11299...

It's actually a very common things in Japan at least, for men and women. Not just karaoke either, men and women pay younger, attractive people to pour them drinks, pay attention to them, laugh at their jokes, etc.

Not defending Uber's CEO of course, but this is like learning that Jeffry Dahmer occasionally drove slightly over the limit.

I'm glad to have learned about this now so that if I find myself in an Asian country with colleagues at a "karaoke" joint, I'll be able to suppress my "WTF" face when a mama-san brings in a line of numbered girls.

It can be even more awkward... at that kind of establishment often they'll either cater to Japanese people only, or tourists only (you do get some mixed places). The thing is, they're so polite that it can take a long time to realize that you're just in the wrong place.

Note: this goes for almost everything, from baths to ramen shops.

This is in Seoul. A news story would be businessmen going to a norabang and not seeing prostitutes

I was eager to call out the clickbait here, but actually it's not as I expected. The karaoke-escort incident is apparently another piece of evidence that the company's sexism problem is endemic and comes from the top. In other news, they keep getting their cars involved in accidents. Maybe they programmed the autonomous driving system to get distracted by nice girls on the sidewalk.

The first part of your comment above was perfectly logical.

Whats sexist about going to an excort bar?

It reinforces the notion that women are objects to be paid for?

Sexist or not, this seems highly inappropriate for a work outing, and definitely adds more evidence to how Uber does not strive to have an inclusive culture.

This post is actually an example of a conflict between multiculturalism and equality. In many cultures, this bar is acceptable, and in others it is seen as demeaning. When there is a conflict between the two, how do they choose what is right and wrong?

IMO equality trumps multiculturalism. It's the same argument about whether tolerant people should tolerate intolerance, and to me the answer is that they should not.

I expect that this is the side corporate America will come down on as well since discrimination is quite common in a lot of cultures including our own.

Equality in what though?

With regards to tolerant people tolerating intolerance well thats kind of self defeating isn't it? If you already have defined who you don't tolerate you are exactly the people you claim to be against.

But how would you make that work?

I am intollerant of lazy people, of islamic terrorism and entitled people. Am I on your list? Is it ok now for you to intollerant of me?

It's an unfortunate reality that tolerance is such a misunderstood concept because it gives us stances like yours who assume things are simpler than they actually are.

How on earth do you get to that conclusion? I get that uber is a toxic environment but it's not because they go to an escort bar and they don't go to an escort bar because the environment is toxic.

Plenty of people do that and they work in great companies. They mostly do it because they are men and some men like to do that.

It sounds more like the a priori acceptance of some feminist branding of sex for money as turning women into objects to be paid for.

Everyone who takes money to do something for others are assets for them. That's why they pay the money. Whether thats working in an escort bar or working 100 hours a week in a startup, the only difference is that one job is paid much much better.

Again: normal people do go to strip clubs (not so sure about "escort bars"). But normal companies don't have what are effectively company outings to strip clubs, and plenty of companies have gotten in trouble for doing that.

Sure they've gotten in trouble but the claim is that it's sexist. Thats not why they got in trouble though.

It is sexist in exactly the same manner as the (I think you thought deliberately absurd) example you provided downthread, in which a company held business meetings in the men's bathroom.

I didn't say they held business meetings in the bathroom but nice strawman.

I said that men meet and talk in bathrooms which excludes women at places where there are very few of them.

So it wasn't deliberately absurd it was just deliberately different to make a point about the absurdity of the argument that excluding women from being in the company with men from their company is sexist per defition.

Furthermore where in the article does it say that they were conducting a business meeting at the strip club? Nowhere what so ever. So you are basing your argument on things that didn't happen.

I didn't say that you did. Again: I know we disagree about a lot of this stuff, but I'm taking pains not to jab at you, and would appreciate if you'd reciprocate.

It is in fact the case that if a company has a systemic practice of making business decisions in the men's bathroom, women working at those companies will have a cause of action against that company.

Further: I made clear to you downthread that on the matter of whether the trip to the club was a business matter at all, reasonable people might disagree. I conceded up front that you might have an argument there --- I strongly disagree with that argument, but it's one you can reasonably make.

Yes you did

"(I think you thought deliberately absurd) example you provided downthread, in which a company held business meetings in the men's bathroom."

Furthermore you haven't pointed to a single example of any kind of business being conducted at the strip club.

It's not something I would drag other people to do, but it has nothing to do with gender discrimination to go to a scrip-club especially not when the purpose seemed to be picking up women not discussing the latest strategy.

Once again: if your argument is that a group of company executives can decide on a whim to go to a escort club together and not have it be a business function, I can agree to disagree with you. I'm simply rebutting the notion that attending an escort club can't be on its own intrinsically sexist. Clearly, it can be.

who said it can't be? Another strawman.

You literally asked the question:

"Whats sexist about going to an excort bar?"

I'm simply answering the question. Please stop being so rude.

You seem to be the rude person here. The context is pretty clear, i dont need a lecture in theoretical scenarios that have nothing to do with this case. Nowhere is feels pressured or businnes meeting at an escort bar mentioned.

You don't have to accept that these bars are sexist to see that they are exclusionary, which is really enough for them to be inappropriate.

Inappropriate for what?

For business? Sure but I don't see that mentioned anywhere and so we are back to opinions not clear cut definitions of what is inappropriate.

Stipulate (gingerly) that an individual or group of friends going to an escort bar isn't sexist. The problem is doing it as a company group function. If you reread the story, you'll see that we know about this because there was a woman executive from Uber in the group, and she was upset at being dragged along.

This has come up at a number of other companies (usual context: strip clubs). Stipulate that going to a strip club isn't sexist, but it's clear (to me at least, and, if I need to add this: to the lawyers) that it's sexist to generate social and professional pressure for women employees either to go to a strip club or to miss out on professional functions because attending a strip club is untenable.

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