Japanese company develops a solar cell with record-breaking efficiency
arstechnica.co.uk
arstechnica.co.uk
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13938690 ~40%
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13938953 46%
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13939181 ~86.8%
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13939399 95%
One... two... three... four... five theoretical maximums in comments.
Something tells me that there's a lot more research to be done (or knowledge to be learned, at the very least) available here than we realize.
The 95% is the limit. You can't extract solar power with a higher efficiency. (Funny thing that you can extract energy from Earth, radiating it away, with ~99% efficiency.)
86.8% and and 40% are theoretical limits to some current technologies. The others are people debating what is the best available on the market (with varying definitions of "available").
Significant Figures [1]
[1] http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/maths/number/round...
Not sure why you were downvoted. Seems like this community is showing signs of academic elitism
Both are rounded.
If you just send them into space with good enough radiators, you'll be able to get 3 9's of efficiency (mid way to 4). But you don't get to reuse the heat waste.
You may be interested on that:
Turbines do have some theoretical limitation, but it's a technology limitation, not an ultimate theoretical one.
"Consider that if all of the energy coming from wind movement through a turbine was extracted as useful energy the wind speed afterwards would drop to zero. If the wind stopped moving at the exit of the turbine, then no more fresh wind could get in - it would be blocked."
Besides, that's a limit on collecting efficiency (how much you can collect / how much is there), not usage efficiency (how much you can use / how much you collect). You don't "destroy" the wind when your turbines don't collect it, it's still there.
The discrepancies is often due to fact we're defining "solar panels" quite different for each application and also the definition of input energy is different.
A great example is engines. The theoretical (Carnot) efficiency is limited by the heat difference between the source and the sink. You can burn fuel at a higher temperature and pressure which will give you great efficiency, but it's not realistically possibly due to physical constraints (usually the steel that houses the explosions). That's why steel engines are often said to have a maximum fuel efficiency of 37%.
This same idea applies to solar panel but it's even more convoluted. What is input energy? Is it all the energy from the sun or is it only the energy within the energy band that the panel can "see"? What is efficiency? The efficiency for different energy band is different for each solar panel as well. Worst of all, this efficiency changes for different temperature and is effected by hysteresis! By the time you store the energy, you also lose efficiency depending on the internal resistance of the energy storage (That's why MPPT exist and fun fact of the day, from what I know, there is still no reliable analytical method to account for this. Most MPPT trackers are done empirically).
Sorry for the long rant, but yeah, solar panels are confusing and there is a surprising about of research that still needs to be done!
When and how you combust the fuel can give you different fuel efficiencies as well. For instance, the Brayton cycle can achieve easily over 50% fuel efficiency. But in order to achieve this, you need a special housing (jet engines uses this cycle) to be able to compress the fuel to the specific pressure and also handle the pressure. Also, special fuel is required. These two things makes it not really practical for the standard consumer.
On a tangent, Internal combustion engines is probably one of the funnest and hardest class I took in graduate school...
Ceramic, for example, can operate at far higher temperatures, so in theory a ceramic engine can be more efficient.
However, ceramic is harder to work with, and not as durable as steel, so it's not a practical alternative.
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/05/turbulent-times-for-for...
I can't remember the name of the article. It may have been in one of my engine/automobile design books. Don't know. Sorry.
Don't research/industries usually come up with unambiguous terms and units for these things so they can compare metrics? e.g. Our prototype showed 94% VSE. VSE: "Visual Spectrum Energy" is the input energy between 400-650nm as measured by ... "
1. The sun emits a wide spectrum, with a long tail in the infrared.
2. Materials are only photoelectric at certain wavelengths.
3. The sensitivity to each wavelength depends upon design which is ultimately is related to the penetration depth of light in the material (longer wavelengths travel longer distances before reacting with the crystal structure).
4. Silicon is the most common and cheapest material, but its sensitivity rolls off sharply towards UV and infrared. Other materials are orders of magnitude more expensive. Not just in manufacturing, but the materials themselves.
5. To capture a wide range of spectrum you need a very long depletion region (kind of neutral area between p-n junctions). This has its own design tradeoffs.
So the end result is that the real world efficiency limit can have many reported figures, from theoretical energy physics to practical material, design, and manufacturing limits. The biggest contributor to loss is that silicon is simply not able to capture much more than the visible spectrum. Next is that even with silicon there is a sensitivity curve (efficiency of converting photons to current per wavelength), and then designing so that you can capture the current (or else it would just recombine in the crystal).
This is why gain in solar seems to be slow. There are tremendous limitations, and I have my doubts that there will be overcome any time soon.
But, there is plenty of sunlight, so I would say the real challenge is energy storage. If sunlight can be stored cheaply and efficiently, then what we have is good enough.
But as you highlight, cost and with that a balance of cost/return is a huge factor and whilst scale can help in many area's. It gets more detrimental with more expensive materials.
My hand wavy gut feel is that optics wouldn't buy you that much. Silicon is orders of magnitude cheaper. To give you an idea, an infrared detector made of InGaAs about the size of a dime can already cost $5-10k. Solar cells of that size are priced in ... dollars?
On the other hand, optics have been used for energy/storage in the form of a heating crucible. I've heard that promoted by some experts.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shockley%E2%80%93Queisser_limi...
The maximum theoretical limit is ~86.8% for solar panels.
Most double junctions require either MOCVD or even ALD but both technologies require longer fab time, have a higher reject rate, and the machines are almost 2X as expensive. Even then, the highest I've seen for solar panel efficiency product that you can purchase is around 32% and that is "state of the art" for today.
It always works out to a bullshit calculation that "the system pays for itself in 10 years" [if you ignore inflation, opportunity cost, and accept their electricity rate projections and assume the gov't won't cut green electricity subsidies]. That number never seems to change, it's always 10 years.
I'd love to get panels put on my house and shop, I have a lot of square footage. But it seems like there's some very greedy middlemen between me and the panels and I lack the skill to install myself.
But this is an important point: residential solar will always be fairly expensive due to labor costs. As module and other hardware costs reduce, it'll make sense to use the very highest efficiency cells, tracking systems (provided they're simple to install), etc.
But I think utility and commercial scale solar will dominate. Someone will eventually get really good at installing solar farms a gigawatt at a time with a highly automated system. Think of the harvesting and planting machines we use in agriculture. Or the machines used to lay railroads automatically. When this happens, utility solar at the interconnection point will drop well below 1 cent per kWh in sunny locations, and transport costs will dominate. Which has some interesting implications.
Cost and efficiency also hugely impacts developing nation solar (most of rural Africa) where no grid whatsoever currently exists.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/42/Efficien...
The conclusion of that chart seems to be : concentrated solar power (even on small scale) is unbeatable, and tops out (realistically) at ~40% efficiency.
So now we should probably work on very, very cheap lenses if we want to advance solar panels, and quick ways to make small, very cheap panels.
AFAICT, there are three ways to double the output of a solar cell: Double the area, double the efficiency, and move the cell to somewhere with twice as bright sunlight and install a cable. That one option presents intractable problems doesn't seem to matter very much when either of the two others are available.
As yearly production escalates, even small increases to the "conversion efficiency"/"production cost" can yield high total returns on the investment.
It won't matter. Investment is hardly ever looked at in terms of total returns but only in terms of annual ROI as a percentage of the original outlay.
This cell is the blue dot "Kaneka".
Multijunction cells are very expensive to make. The reason the multijunction cells in that chart all have concentrators is that without them, the cost is ridiculously too much to even consider.
This particular cell is noteworthy because it is cheap enough that you can eschew the added cost and complexity of the concentrator and just use more cells and potentially still be cheaper.
That's the operative word here. And that is far from a run race with this particular technology, it is going to be close enough that it bears watching but not so good that it is a slam dunk winner.
You could use some of that energy to have tiny motors that track the sunlight.
This would net in more energy and less cost per square meter right?
- you only need one motor to aim a whole array of mirrors
if you're willing to make some exotic gears
- the lifespan of the cells will shorten measurably
- you will need to cool the cells if you don't want them
to die very quickly
- there will be a serious fire riskAt this point in time there are no cheap and easy solutions in sight to make the next 2 to 5% gain in efficiency in a cost effective manner.
But given enough time and effort I'm sure that that will happen, I expect the final cut-off to be somewhere around 25% net efficiency (solar incidence to electricity out of the system) for smaller installations and maybe up to 30% for much larger installations.
Will this require more complex installation than flat panels?
Will this require more lifetime maintenance than flat panels?
If the answer to either question is a yes, it doesn't matter how good your system is in any other measure, you will lose against simple flat panels in total cost per electricity produced for any small-scale installation.
Leakage current, which happens even in darkness, wastes power at a fixed rate per unit area. By concentrating sunlight, one can generate far more than this leakage rate making it insignificant.
I don't follow this argument. The median panels used in actual installations have increased in efficiency from about 16% to about 18% over the last 10 years (while the prices have more than halved).
First, the chart you link to is for 'hero' cells, using expensive technology to test the limits of a particular material, it is only tenuously linked to industrial production. There's lots of leeway for improvement in industrial production, which is what matters to the economy.
Second, improvements in efficiency are only one part of cost reductions. In the time that the cost of panels has dropped perhaps 50 fold you're only talking about a 1/3 to 1/2 increase in efficiency.
Third, there's always potential for other materials or structures to come to the fore. If we could find a cheap way of producing multi-junction cells then the ~30% theoretical efficiency limit disappears.
So, there's plenty of scope for continued improvements.
I really don't see why this is impossible. Hire a bunch of specialists, make robots build the cells end to end, then build a bunch of those robots.
Anything a human can make one of, it should be possible to make a robot build millions of with zero incremental human labour, as long as you invest enough upfront for the robots.
It's impossible. That said, every type of solar panel works best with direct solar irradiance, what you can get from scatter off clouds and on overcast days is a pittance even in the best situations compared with direct light.
So this isn't nearly as big a step (yet) as it is made out to be, it may work out commercially but that is definitely not clear at this moment, and if it does work out commercially then it remains to be seen how much of that efficiency gain ends up reducing the per KWh installed cost of the panels. Any net gain of course is good.
More important than energy efficiency is price per unit energy. You could have an inefficient but cheap solar cell that's more economical than an expensive efficient one (eg. active tracker vs fixed - the less efficient option is usually more economical). Though when installation costs dominate, then you really do want smaller panels so you can spend fewer man-hours nailing them up.
And even if you drive down installation costs so you can roll out cheap cells en masse you'll eventually run into a space limit for some applications. There's only so much sun-facing rooftop on each building.
Also: The best way to look at solar panel breakthroughs is to look at what actually makes it to market. If I had a dollar for every solar cell breakthrough that eventually did not make it to market I'd be fairly wealthy.
You're also correct that not all improvements make it to market. Without research and continuing efforts to improve, nothing makes it to market. What's the point of your second paragraph? The article makes it _very_ clear that this is not in production, and speaks specifically to concerns about whether the process is suitable for industrialization.
Hype simply doesn't help, at best this is 10 years away, worst you'll never hear from it again.
For large areas it might work out to be beneficiary earlier.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Stefaan_De_Wolf/publica...
(for more https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell_efficiency)
Photovoltaics don't do that on their own, so you can't compare that to a solar cell's nameplate efficiency.
Either you have to compare PV efficiency with gross glucose production or you need to compare the full PV lifecycle (production, installation, maintenance and recycling) with the harvestable sugar content.
In reality solar-cells and batteries are not at all cheap to install and maintain. We can scale up the solar cells and collect more energy. However, that needs more surface area to be covered with these panels. We still need better ways to store the energy efficiently.
This isn't ultra efficient, but it's cheap and probably good enough. We have lots of experience with hydroelectric power.
Google ran a prize project to build a better inverter a while ago: https://blog.google/topics/environment/and-winner-of-1-milli...
"It had to have an efficiency greater than 95 percent and handle loads of 2 kVA. It also had to fit in a metal enclosure of no more than 40 cubic inches."
Could you tune/adjoin these to span a very wide band of wavelengths?
> If a story has had significant attention in the last year or so, we kill reposts as duplicates. If not, a small number of reposts is ok.
This submission got traction, the other one was posted 12hrs ago and didn't really get anywhere.