Apple appeal in Japan is turning the tables | Hacker News Reader

Apple appeal in Japan is turning the tables

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36 pointsevo_921 comments

My anecdotal experience in Japan...

I go to Japan every spring for 3 weeks or so, and I am always looking around to see what electronic gadgets people are using, so I am always checking out everyone, especially on the train.

Spring 2009...before arriving, I was quite interested to see how many people were using an iPhone. I was quite surprised to see only the the odd iPhone here and there. The iPhone had already been out for a long time, with great success most everywhere else, so I thought maybe there was something unique about the way they use their phones (the Japanese are constantly reading or typing on their phones) such that the iPhone was inferior (I still don't know the answer to this).

Spring 2010...iPhones everywhere. On any given train, of the people visibly using a cell phone, 20% to 40% of them had an iPhone. It was a pretty impressive conversion in the span of one year.

I did see the new Sony XPeria in the stores over there, it did look like a fairly nice device. But the advantage the iPhone will always have is the app store, there are some really cool Japan only apps that (for now) you can only get on the iPhone.

Maybe Japanese cell phone companies should just standardize on Android and try to come out with the slickest Japanese implementation first, then try to re-tackle the international market if they can pull that off.

One reason is that the price dropped quite a bit. I got a 8GB for "free" last year, subject to a 2 year contract.

Your estimate of 20~40% is probably off by a factor of about 10, though. Think about it. Softbank is one of the 3 major mobile carriers in Japan. In fact, the other two are still bigger. Even all of the dozens of Softbank models combined probably don't add up to 25% of market share.

Also, each carrier has had their own app stores way before iPhone existed. Of course, iPhone has the novelty factor, a great interface, etc, but existing stores have plenty of apps and also a subscription model.

"of the people visibly using a cell phone, 20% to 40% of them had an iPhone"

i imagine the visibly using a cellphone is the key part, as i'm sure most people on bart have cellphones but the only ones people play with on the subway have either an iphone or android phone. same case w/ iphone market share vs iphone mobile browser usage share.

I think that cities are vastly biased towards the iPhone. There's just lots of pro-iPhone people in the cities; mac users (note there are only a few mac stores in Japan and they are all in big cities), Japanese people who are more "worldly", business people or tech people who appreciate the easy access to the real web and not watered down iMode version etc etc.

But get outside the cities - you know, the other 90% of Japan - and I'd wager a guess that the amount of iPhones you see in the wild drops considerably.

So you're right in a way. There's probably very high market penetration within big cities. But outside the cities where its high school kids, X-corp salarymen, factory workers and housewives, other models dominate.

> outside the cities - you know, the other 90% of Japan

So far as I can tell, more than half the population of Japan is in major metropolitan areas.

Sorry for the double post.

I thought maybe there was something unique about the way they use their phones (the Japanese are constantly reading or typing on their phones) such that the iPhone was inferior (I still don't know the answer to this).

A few perceived demerits of the iPhone in Japan, in no particular order:

1) No or poor support for standard emoticons and "decorated" (HTML) email. That's a big minus here, especially among women.

2) No mobile wallet support. This was not a completely standard feature 2 years ago but it was already fairly common.

3) The camera is not so good: relatively low resolution, few features, no video recording.

4) No infra-red device. This is used to exchange contact information. This is a completely standard feature, even 0-yen phones have it.

5) No push email. Also a standard feature.

There are others. Personally, I don't mind the issues above except for 5). For me, the main problem is that the response can be horribly slow when typing, but I don't know if this is a widespread problem or just a glitch on my own device.

Obligatory anecdotal confirmation:

I recently went to a neighboorhood meetup (オフ会) near my home in Kobe. At some point I got out my iPhone to look at the time. Someone said "oh, you have an iPhone?" At which point fully HALF of the other attendees pulled out theirs and began discussing.

Yes, sampling bias and all that, but it's still a bit surprising. One guy who didn't have one expressed his loyalty to an opposing carrier that doesn't have the iPhone.

Still haven't seen an iPad here, but it hasn't been very long.

I'm in Tokyo, and the news here is full of the amazing new world ushered in by the iPad, and I know it sold out the first day; people camped out for two days in front of the Apple Store in Ginza to get one, and the lines were huge

I'll let you know if Ginza/Shibuya is an iPad-fest this weekend.

Japan does not always pick Japanese stuff over non-Japanese stuff. Perl seems more popular than Ruby, everyone uses Windows, OS X, or Linux, and so on.

I think the appeal of the iPhone is that it is marketed like a luxury good rather than a commodity, like the Japanese-made cell phones are. The Apple Store in Tokyo is in the super-ritzy Ginza district, after all. (Although the same is true in the US; the Apple Stores are always in the high-end retail districts, and the iPhone is a luxury where its competitors are faceless commodities that you "pay" ninety nine cents for every two years.)

Another thing I see going for Apple is that, it seems, people in Japan are actually willing to pay for consumer electronics. In the US, we go for whatever's cheapest (go to Best Buy sometime, not a high-end item in sight), but the Japanese seem to be more discerning. At least in my experience.

(I am typing this on a Y30,000 keyboard that was imported from Japan. The most expensive keyboard I can find on Amazon is $100, and only because it has a shit-ton of stupid bells and whistles, like LEDs and a text display. This keyboard is a regular 103-key keyboard without a numberpad. No lights, no display, no wireless. Just a good keyboard. Only in Japan...)

> I am typing this on a Y30,000 keyboard

Wow! Which brand and model?

Topre Realforce 87U. (I also have two HHKBs, which are similar to the Realforce. I have not decided which I like better yet; same keyswitches, but different in many other ways.)

http://www.cvtinc.com/products/keyboards/prime.htm Alps, metal base, not $300. I've been using one for 9 years now.

I also have a "Siig MiniKey" or something acquired new in box from a cheap/used electronics reseller, with Alps switches.. for $5.

Actually my friend bought it on a whim. They had a huge crate of them there, all new in their boxes, recovered from a sell-off from some corporate warehouse or something. I got it from him later, when I saw it, and I could instantly tell it had Alps switches in it. He said it was only $5 so we ran back to the place immediately -- but someone had already scooped up the entire crate of them. The place selling them had no clue they were worth a bunch of money. Otherwise, I would have bought all of them myself. I guess someone else had the same idea as me.

Interesting. But to be honest, I don't really like the feel of Alps or Cherry keyswitches. I know they are well made, but not as well made as Topre. It's hard to explain, so I'll just say -- take apart a Happy Hacking Keyboard some day, and you will love Topre forever. I knew I sort of liked Topre keyboards until I did that, but afterwards, it was easy to buy another HHKB (for work) and a Realforce. They are just so well-made, that you can't not like them.

I'll have to check it out. I don't think I've used a keyboard with Topre switches since they are even more exotic than Alps, and I had assumed they wouldn't be much better.

Yeah, they are "rubber dome", which scares people away. (They have a rubber dome, but they also have a spring. And they are capacitive; you don't press the key all the way down to type the key.) They are like Cherry browns done right, tactile, quiet, and no requirement to "bottom out". Topre really goes over the top with the part of the key that presses the dome; hard ABS plastic, with anti-rotation tabs, and a shape that makes even off-center hits go straight down. (You can push the key from the side, instead of from above, and the key doesn't jam; it just slides down normally. It's really brilliant.)

Oh, and this is true of both the Realforce and the HHKB Professional; same switches, different layout.

I am intrigued by what you say, but I wonder how easy the Topre is to keep clean.

Of all the things in an ordinary office or home (including toilet seats and such) phone handsets and computer keyboards tend to have the most germs. One anti-germ measure I use is to replace my keyboard every year or so, but replacing the Topre every year is more than I want to spend. Replacing just the keycaps would control germs just as well as replacing the board, but where would I buy keycaps for a Topre?

Ha! I have the exact same, also imported from Japan. It's a lovely keyboard. :)

His article is a little weird. The Japanese have been into Americana products like Levis, work boots, boat shoes, surfboards and Harley Davidsons since the 70s. You can't get american made jeans or shoes in the US, but you can (for $800) in Tokyo.

Regarding electronics from the USA (China?), there simply have not been any worth buying until the iPhone and iPad.

I think that last bit was kind of the whole point.

I've never been to Japan so I can't comment on $800 US-made jeans. However, there are many high end japanese brands, and a lot of the ones that aren't use Japanese denim.

Oh, I think I can beat $100. Try $1,600: http://www.thinkgeek.com/computing/9836/

Of course, that's because it has a shit-ton of stupid LEDs. (don't it make you want one, though?)

This thread has proved useful, I may have to nab one of the keyboards mentioned... good keyboards are worth a lot IMO, given how much they'd get used.

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