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Comment by CalChris | Hacker News Reader

At $1500 for a chair, no wonder these startups are failing.

Something something it's literally impossible to hire engineers who aren't showered in toys and treats.

But yeah, I generally agree with you. I like my fancy chair because I spend an awful lot of time in it every day, and I'm tall (6'6"), so most chairs are pretty uncomfortable for me and my lower back already sucks.

I went to work for a utility company blocks away from Puppet HQ, New Relic, Tripwire, Simple, and many others. There are tradeoffs but it has been one of the best decisions that I've made for my work-life balance in years. Perks are basically non-existent, but they ring hollow if the work isn't enjoyable or rewarding enough on its own.

I know the feeling. I'm digital marketing guy for an electronics manufacturing shop, our office environments are likely similar. Occasionally I interview at startups when I think what they're doing is actually interesting, and it always feels like I'm visiting another planet. My nights and weekends are worth more than free meals and laundry.

there was an article a while back about how any type of exercise movement, weight lifting to running to walking would ease up lower back pain.

Ultimately comes down to strengthening those muscles. Sitting all day atrophies the muscles. I had lower back pain for the first 30 years of my life, then started deadlifting and the back pain is gone. g'luck

Of course, the most common injury when deadlifting form slips is probably lowerback related.

I still think everyone would benefit from some strength training! Any strenuous physical activity has risk from injury, but I think that risk is better to accept than the risk from doing nothing. But it's worth looking up some powerlifting videos on YouTube for good form and cues. (I've seen deadlifting videos from non-powerlifters, and I have not been impressed.) This is a good one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d5eGGZXb0Is Layne Norton is a smart, thoughtful guy and an elite powerlifter.

Layne Norton is smart and thoughtful. There are others as well. Basically I learned a million time more from these guys than I ever learned in all the yoga classes I ever took.

Staying active definitely helps, but isn't a silver bullet from my experience. Once upon a time I was a serious athlete, and it was still something I dealt with. My biggest problem is probably seated posture. I tend to slide forward in my seat so my back fits more comfortably on the backrest, or lean too far forward when I'm sitting upright. Trying to be mindful of it, but old habits die hard.

I squat ATG and my back muscles are stronger now. Before I'd complain about my back but no more. Now I'm not going to load up. But I do knock out sets at 145. Odd thing is that I don't like deadlifts. Probably personal taste.

I'm 6'3" and completely screwed up my lower back from rowing. In 2013 I had got to the point where I could not sit down at a computer for more than 10 minutes.

After four years of swimming 3-4x/wk, my back is now totally fine! Highly recommended.

Swimming is definitely something I've thought about, especially because I want to be good to my knees as well - years of outdoor basketball took its toll haha. My problem is that I find it pretty boring, so I have a hard time getting motivated. I should just do it anyway, or make some time to go to the beach or something.

Same here. My workaround: elliptical exerciser, and a tablet with a good screen.

How many new Macbook Pros + 27" monitors have been purchased over the years for a sales person to check email and use a web-based CRM?

look, friend, this is the most sedentary line of work there is. if you don't have a good chair you're in for a world of hurt.

I've slept under my desk because the couch was already occupied. I think a certain amount of pain in a startup focuses people and I'm very good with that.

As for sedentary, it doesn't have to be. I worked at 100 Hamilton Ave once before it was Palantir. Boring work but there was a gym in the basement. I got my bench 1RM up to 270.

And I've worked at a certain company where the VP of Resources personally adjusted the Aeron to my 6'4" as part of my onboarding. This did not impress me.

It ain't the chair.

it ain't the chair, but it's a nice perk to have as far as perks go. I'd probably pick a nice chair over almost any other office amenity.

$1500/1920 work hours a year = $0.78/hr. Seems reasonable to me.

> $1500/1920 work hours a year = $0.78/hr. Seems reasonable to me.

If that sounds good to you, consider $150/1920 instead for a thought experiment! Sounds about fair for someone like me who assuredly could work for years on end sitting on a rock or any random plastic chair outside Hanoi for all I care.. I'd be madly paranoid about spilling coffee or such sitting in a 1500 piece of furniture

I write to you from an Aeron chair I acquired from a failed startup in 2001. I've gotten almost 16 years out of it so far, and I spend at least 8 hours a day 5 days a week in it. I've spilled coffee and food on it, and was able to clean it with just a bit of Dawn detergent and a hose.

I'm not willing to compromise on my health or my working conditions. Too old for that. Spend money on things that make your life more comfortable or easier when you can.

Maybe. $1600 is still $1600 though, and the luxuries add up to real money. Especially worrisome when you're generating no real revenue and operating on other people's dime.

Is your workstation a luxury? Bathrooms? Desks? Ergonomic chairs are no different. They are tools of your trade; don't skimp on tools.

What a ridiculous comparison. No, I wouldn't say bathrooms are a luxury. A $1600 chair is. What world do you live in?

One where I want to be comfortable for the 8 hours a day I'm working and have leverage as someone with skills in demand.

Bathrooms are for spoiled corporate brats. Real scrappy startups just have poop buckets.

except they don't? You could choose to not buy 20 chairs and... get 1 engineer for a couple months?

Meanwhile you have things like ad campaigns that have "unlimited" budgets. Hell, there's tripling staff size in a year without some matching revenue growth!

Chairs don't kill startups.

Sure they do. Maybe not on their own, but wasteful spending has killed plenty of startups.

No, it doesn't. $0.78 per person per hour is a lot of money; 10% of minimum wage. Ofc you're not paying people minimum wage but it's still a nontrivial amount

At 100k year (cheap for an engineer!) that is about a weeks wages.

Cheap for an engineer in some parts of the USA. Can we please stop pretending that (what are in most of the world) large amounts of money are actually small potatoes. It is not ignorance, you know you're better off than the rest of us so please stop pretending like it's nothing.

that's a typical engineer salary in a funded startup or a big tech company in basically any U.S. city that has funded startups or big tech companies.

I know engineer pay is lower in some other countries. UK comes to mind as particularly awful for engineer pay. Still, the context of the discussion is in how much it costs _the company_ not how much it costs the engineer. It's small potatoes for a company.

And 80% of the software engineers in the world aren't in America.

If you think the countries like the UK where pay is lower than the US, which is the highest in the world, is "particularly awful", you might be living in a bubble.

Not to mention plenty of people making less than 100k even in the US, even for big tech companies you've heard of in big cities like Seattle and New York.

We have quite a bit of people here on HN making over £100k in London. I wouldn't say UK is "particularly awful".

I'm a bit disappointed in the accusatory tone of your post. Literally everyone is in a bubble. My bubble is New York City. What's yours?

There are zero humans anywhere in any time or place that have global awareness and are not bounded by their personal experience and local context. So what are you even trying to say?

Yes, yes, of course we have limited experience. However, there are more than a few things that every functional adult is expected to be aware of. The scale of global poverty is certainly among them. For software developers, it's not unreasonable to additionally have some passing familiarity with the going wages for similar work in other countries.

For the people lucky enough to be living in the world's number one economy, in an expensive city, in a well-funded startup or an established tech company, 100k is "not a lot" and spending $1500 on a chair can seem something other than absurd.

The other commenter that you replied to above pointed out very clearly that this applies only to some parts of one particular country, and it is perhaps not very polite to act like this is completely unknown to you.

You responded to this from your bubble, and then defended yourself against me by saying that we are all in a bubble. Well, no kidding, but some of us at least try to be aware of it!

Now are you starting to get even the slightest idea of what I'm trying to say?

I don't imagine many start-ups buy them new. My previous employer bought a bunch of Aeron chairs second-hand (from other failed start-ups...)

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